Poland: More new MVNO's: Telepin Mobi & 36.6

[Motel75]

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Telepin's access number rate 0.49/0.39 in promotion is not so good also because moreless the same destination may be reached from Orange SIMs via 7081 dialthrough numbers at 0.35 PLN/min.

Can any Orange user just call 7081 and then place a call at the prompt, or is there more to it than that? Are there similar dialthrough numbers for other networks?

Originally Posted by Przemolog

However, there many numbers "recycled".

How does number portability affect prepaid? I read that TPSA had implemented portability in 2006, but it doesn't seem to be offered by any mobile provider...

[ms93]

Originally Posted by Motel75

Can any Orange user just call 7081 and then place a call at the prompt, or is there more to it than that? Are there similar dialthrough numbers for other networks?

708 numbers don't work in other networks. Only fixed lines and Orange.
There's many 7081 services, for example two:
http://www.0708188377.pl/zasieg.htm (telefonia stacjonarna - fixed line, tak - yes)
http://telefon.onet.pl/onettelefon.html (Obsługiwane kraje - operated countries, także telefony komórkowe - also mobiles)

You just call 708188377, 708177800 or something like that, enter number starting with 00 + country code + number (eg. 0048221234567) and call. It's 0,35zl per minute.

[Motel75]

Originally Posted by ms93

708 numbers don't work in other networks. Only fixed lines and Orange.
There's many 7081 services, for example two:
http://www.0708188377.pl/zasieg.htm (telefonia stacjonarna - fixed line, tak - yes)
http://telefon.onet.pl/onettelefon.html (Obsługiwane kraje - operated countries, także telefony komórkowe - also mobiles)

You just call 708188377, 708177800 or something like that, enter number starting with 00 + country code + number (eg. 0048221234567) and call. It's 0,35zl per minute.

Hmmm, I got an Orange Pop card to try this out, and neither of the above worked. Are you sure that some of these services work over Orange?

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by Motel75

but next time I'll just buy a POP/Zetafon card for 5 PLN with 13 PLN credit instead and use the Orange dialthrough. Orange cards all have rubbish lose-all-your-credit non-cumulative expiration, so I will never top up, just buy a new SIM each time, and add the old one to my album...

Do you mean that one?
http://www.orange.pl/portal/map/map/...ID_POP_STARTER

"13 for 5" is marketing bullshit.
For 5 PLN you get 3 PLN credit, and after 2 first top-ups >- 25 PLN you'll get 2*5 PLN for calls/SMS to Orange only

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by Motel75

How does number portability affect prepaid? I read that TPSA had implemented portability in 2006, but it doesn't seem to be offered by any mobile provider...

Yes, mobile portability is also available, also for prepaids. It costs about 50-60 PLN. Prepaids have to be registered, however (via a paper or www form, depeding on the operator).

And this is the only point when you can really see that Heyah, Sami Swoi and 36.6 are not real MVNO's - it's impossible to port a number from them to Era/Plus or vice versa. Of course, it's because the law doesn't force to make it possible, not for technical reasons. Heyah to Era portability was announced a few weeks ago, but it was cancelled. The only workaround to port numbers between fake MVNOs and their "host" operators is to use an "intermediate" operator, but it doubles th costs, of course.

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by Motel75

Hmmm, I got an Orange Pop card to try this out, and neither of the above worked. Are you sure that some of these services work over Orange?

I think you tried it in the Orange coverage, not in roaming?
Anyway, here is the price list and T&C for special numbers availability from Orange:

http://www.orange.pl/binaries/PL/Bin...94/2759348.pdf

Basically it's a "neverending promotion" in which the following connections are enabled

300,700,701,708 - premium rate (shared revenue) - charging per minute
4009,3009,7009,7019,7080 - premium rate (shared revenue) - charging per call
801, 804 - shared cost infolines - charging per minute (the same rate as landlines)
00800/+800 - international toll free - charging per minute (the same rate as landlines)
800 - national freephone - free

All the "per minute" special numbers are charged 60/60 not 1/1 as regular numbers and barred in roaming.

The key issue is "§ 3 item 3."

PTK Centertel sp. z o.o. nie ponosi odpowiedzialnosci za brak mozliwosci połaczenia z numerami usług audiotekstowych oraz numerami
infolinii miedzynarodowych, jezeli brak takiej mozliwosci wynika z zasad okreslonych przez dostawce usług (Service Providera), bedacego
podmiotem niezaleznym od PTK Centertel sp. z o.o.

Translation

PTK Centertel sp. z o.o. is not responsible for lack of possibility of connection to "audiotext services" and international infolines, if that lack of possibility results from the rules defing by the Service Provider, being a company independent from PTK Centertel sp. z o.o.

It seems that the numbers I knew that they had worked, are not available anymore from Orange

The only one still working is 708 208 108 http://www.alenumer.pl/index.php?id=wykaz_komorki
but it costs 1.28 PLN/min and connects also to mobile phones is CPP countries.

[Motel75]

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Do you mean that one?
http://www.orange.pl/portal/map/map/...ID_POP_STARTER

"13 for 5" is marketing bullshit.
For 5 PLN you get 3 PLN credit, and after 2 first top-ups >- 25 PLN you'll get 2*5 PLN for calls/SMS to Orange only

Yes, silly me, I had a closer took at the terms and conditions, and of course Orange are a bunch of liars. Nothing new there. However, this was the card I was forced to buy, because the local store didn't have any Orange Go starter kits. And, it seems, Orange charged me for the calls that they blocked.

(An aside here: With things like this, I see Vodafone's wisdom in selling Orange to France Telecom -- prior to 2000, Orange UK was known for great deals, no hidden charges, customer-friendliness (first one-second billing in the world, they only charged roamers their standard rate plus 15 percent, etc.), and were a fearsome competitor. Since FT took over, it seems the practices of Orange France are the rule -- credit cancellation, short expiration, and now blocking calls to competitors but still charging for them.)

Originally Posted by Przemolog

I think you tried it in the Orange coverage, not in roaming?

Yes, here in Otwock. The 3 PLN would be gone in an instant in roaming.

But really, in (Germany, the UK, the USA, Australia, etc.) you can place international calls for a couple of cents a minute using cards, call-by-call, etc. Why it has to cost, at a minimum, 10 times as much in Poland is something that is a bit hard to explain without assuming collusion with (or intimidation of) competitors on the part of TPSA. Sigh.

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Heyah to Era portability was announced a few weeks ago, but it was cancelled.

Do you have a link for this? My wife has an Era contract (601, since the early days!) but would probably be better off with Heyah (like me). That's pretty annoying, but no surprise (see above).

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by Motel75

Yes, silly me, I had a closer took at the terms and conditions, and of course Orange are a bunch of liars. Nothing new there.

Disregarding the fact the bonus is for on-net connections only, the starter should be named "63 for 55" or so . BTW, I suppose that the name of the "13 for 5" starter may violate the lastest version of the fair competition law (effective Dec 07) which e.g. forbids advertising "unlimited calls" with 2000 minutes month limit. However, I have no time to ivestigate that issue .

In fact, there used to be some "get more than you paid" starters in Idea/Orange. There were "12 for 10" POP starters and, really good ones, a great sale of "Jedna Idea na Kartę" starters in summer 2005 (before rebranding to Orange): "25 for 12.50".

Originally Posted by Motel75

However, this was the card I was forced to buy, because the local store didn't have any Orange Go starter kits.

If you needed just Orange Go, you could "change the brand" from POP. In Orange, you can fchange from one prepaid brand to another (POP, Go, Music, Free na kartę) at the cost of on-net SMS, no matter what SIM you have.

Originally Posted by Motel75

And, it seems, Orange charged me for the calls that they blocked.

Did you hear a message about non-existing number and you were charged anyway???

Originally Posted by Motel75

But really, in (Germany, the UK, the USA, Australia, etc.) you can place international calls for a couple of cents a minute using cards, call-by-call, etc. Why it has to cost, at a minimum, 10 times as much in Poland is something that is a bit hard to explain without assuming collusion with (or intimidation of) competitors on the part of TPSA. Sigh.

Well, let's make things clear.

By "cards" you probably mean calling cards which in Poland are usually named "Tele-something" ? What is the problem about them? Eg. I've just checked Telepin (the calling card, not the SIM, http://www.telepin.pl/Cennik.pdf) and, as you can see, international calls via 0800 number cost from 0.26 PLN (about 0.07 EUR, perhaps not very cheap but not that horrible either). Calls to mobile phones in CPP countries are more expensive but obviously they have to.

"Call-by-call" is AFAIK a German name for we call in Poland "prefiks" (officially "NDS") and it's a 10xx number added behind the leading 0 in national numbers or 010xx preceding the 00 in international numbers. Yes, that's worse because 10xx access number work on TP lines only and, what is the most importtant, using them requires signing an additional contract . The rates also higher (the best ones I found are 0.35 PLN/min - 0.12 EUR) but it isn't quite bad anyway....

Perhaps, if you need a coverage in Otwock and the Warsaw area, you should try Sferia - a "landline" CDMA 800 operator and its prepaid Nomadic na kartę.
International rates start from 0.22 PLN/min with 1/1 debiting.

http://www.sferia.pl/index.php?action=page&cid=760
http://www.sferia.pl/files/12148980916584933264.pdf
http://www.fkn.pl/2,0,1456064,1,1,artykul.html

Originally Posted by Motel75

Do you have a link for this? My wife has an Era contract (601, since the early days!) but would probably be better off with Heyah (like me). That's pretty annoying, but no surprise (see above).

601 is the earliest Plus prefix. Do you mean 602?

The links are:
http://www.telepolis.pl/news.php?id=11660 and
http://www.telepolis.pl/news.php?id=11745.

However, it was to be Heyah to Era, not vice versa what you need.

[Motel75]

Yes, I meant 602. I mistyped, funnily enough, since I know the number .