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[tux]

Originally Posted by 123soleil

But what totally sold it to me is how cheap their Swiss tarifs are. 3p/minute for landline and 9p/minute for mobile. That's 2-3x cheaper than the cheapest swiss provider (aldimobile) Why isn't all of switzerland going crazy over this???? Fact is, no one in switzerland has heard of toggle mobile.

Because you can't change your CID.

[123soleil]

Originally Posted by tux

Because you can't change your CID.

CID doesn't explain why all other providers are 2-3x more expensive. Everyone knows that swiss operators are overcharging. But togglemobile is proof that they could be cheaper.

[tux]

Originally Posted by 123soleil

CID doesn't explain why all other providers are 2-3x more expensive. Everyone knows that swiss operators are overcharging.

Swisscom have the highest prices in Europe, yet they have more than 60% market share. Competitors control each something less than 20%, with way lower prices than Swisscom (still above european average). Swiss carriers simply don't have any interest to compete (except for roaming traffic, due to the European regulation): it's a still market.

[inquisitor]

Originally Posted by 123soleil

CID doesn't explain why all other providers are 2-3x more expensive. Everyone knows that swiss operators are overcharging. But togglemobile is proof that they could be cheaper.

Toggle probably won't make much money from domestic calls within Switzerland or perhaps even make a loss from these that is being absorbed by cross-subsidisation as a look into Swiss mobile termination rates reveals:


data from January 2014, source: http://berec.europa.eu/eng/document_...shot-as-_0.pdf

I don't know what Toggle pays to Swisscom for termination of inbound calls but it will probably be more than what they earn from the termination rates in most Toggle countries. So when being called e.g. on your French (€ 0.008/min), Danish (€ 0.00896) or British (€ 0.01009) number every minute must be a loss for them. The tariffs in Switzerland are only viable as long as the majority of outbound calls goes to destinations with lower termination rates, so they cannot be interested in attracting Swiss customers that would only use the SIM for domestic calls.

I think Lycamoble intentionally do not market Toggle too actively as they would not only cannibalize their MNO partners' customer bases but also their own. They are targeting very cost-aware and tech-savvy customers that will find Toggle by themselves.

The possibility to change callerIDs was promised a year and a half ago but as so many promises this feature never became reality.

[123soleil]

Originally Posted by inquisitor

Toggle probably won't make much money from domestic calls within Switzerland or perhaps even make a loss from these that is being absorbed by cross-subsidisation as a look into Swiss mobile termination rates reveals:


data from January 2014, source: http://berec.europa.eu/eng/document_...shot-as-_0.pdf

I don't know what Toggle pays to Swisscom for termination of inbound calls but it will probably be more than what they earn from the termination rates in most Toggle countries. So when being called e.g. on your French (€ 0.008/min), Danish (€ 0.00896) or British (€ 0.01009) number every minute must be a loss for them. The tariffs in Switzerland are only viable as long as the majority of outbound calls goes to destinations with lower termination rates, so they cannot be interested in attracting Swiss customers that would only use the SIM for domestic calls.

I think Lycamoble intentionally do not market Toggle too actively as they would not only cannibalize their MNO partners' customer bases but also their own. They are targeting very cost-aware and tech-savvy customers that will find Toggle by themselves.

The possibility to change callerIDs was promised a year and a half ago but as so many promises this feature never became reality.

So you think they pay when you recieve calls? I think it is free for them. They surely found a way to bypass fees for incoming calls

[peterdoo]

As far as I understand, full MVNOs buy airtime from the MNOs at a very discounted price. However they have to make a huge investment in the equipment in order to interconnect directly to the mobile network, bypassing the termination of the MNO. The termination is done on their own by the full MVNO or by their technical subcontractor.

So Toggle (Lyca UK) would terminate its calls on the Lyca Swiss Network at the price they agree on, and Lyca Swiss would forward the call to Swisscom Network at airtime price, not at the high Swisscom termination rate. Even if Lyca Swiss would charge the official termination rate to Toggle, that money stays in the "family".

[inquisitor]

The rates at which MVNOs buy airtime from MNOs cannot be that much discounted for the following simple reason: Regulatory authorities set mobile termination rates based on an assessment of Capex and Opex involved in the deployment and operation of mobile networks. The principle is that termination rates should cover the costs of building and maintaining mobile networks plus financing costs and a small profit. The highest costs of a mobile network lie in the radio access network (basicly the towers and all the fibre and microwave links to the core network), so the core network components which a full MVNO has to build by himself make up a relatively small part of the total costs.
Now if an MNO sold airtime at rates too much below the MTR they would prompt the regulator to step in and lower the MTR as this would imply the costs of the RAN are lower than assessed by the regulator before. So MNOs must be very careful when selling airtime to MVNOs as they risk their own MTR to be cut.

[inquisitor]

Upon arrival in Moscow yesterday toggle send me this confusing text:

Welcome to Abkhazia. Its costs £2.35/min to make local call and £0.96/min to receive calls.SMS are £0.48 to send and FREE to receive.Data costs £1.34/MB.Charges include VAT.The emergency services number is 112.Voicemail access:+447438646121

I haven't tested if they also confuse Russia with Abkhazia when it comes to billing. Tariffs in Russia should be slightly cheaper for outgoing calls if the tariffs given on their website are indeed valid:

Making calls: 1.20£/min
Local calls: 1.72£/min
Receiving calls: 0.96£/min
Send SMS: 0.48£/SMS
Data: 1.34£/MB

[ChrisNeedsToKnow]

Originally Posted by inquisitor

Upon arrival in Moscow yesterday toggle send me this confusing text:

If Putin knew, Toggle would be prohibited by this afternoon!

[NFH]

Originally Posted by ChrisNeedsToKnow

If Putin knew, Toggle would be prohibited by this afternoon!

I think he might overlook this system error and be pleased that Toggle recognises Abkhazia as an independent country. It is in fact part of Georgia, at least in the eyes of the United Nations and of most other countries.