Piranha Mobile Sim Card

[gkeeper]

Originally Posted by MBK

I don't see this, and I have been looking at it seriously for a long time.

I am always looking for other options, but as far as I can see the best possible worldwide option is a Travelsim line of SIM (Onesimcard, Travelsim, Airbaltic card,...) with an Iphone/Android callback dialer (free incoming in 154 countires, 0.09£ to call you.)

As for Europe & USA, Piranha is a lot more expensive than Toggle (I.ex France: Landline 0.09£ vs 0.03£, Mobile 0.11£ vs 0.09£). Furthermore, Pirhana charges for incoming calls which are free with Toggle and serveral other SIMs. France 0.04£, Germany 0.05£ for incoming calls. Germany is even more expensive with Piranha (0.14£ Mobile).

And look at Switzerland! : Mobile 0.30£, Landline 0.13£, Incoming 0.09£ (with Toggle always the same 0.03£, 0.09£ and free incoming).

Next month I'll be in Thailand: Piranha incoming 0.12£/min, free with Toggle for a 0.19£ flat rate per call (and of course always free with the Travelsim line of SIMs).


Piranha is perhaps good in some limited cases, and data rates seem good. But for general use, imho:

Best EU & US: Toggle mobile.
Best general worldwide: Travelsim line of SIM + iphone/android callback dialer.

I have been using both in my dual SIM phone, daily and exclusively; and never had the need to use any other SIM for the past year. There's nothing cheaper if you don't want to juggle with local sims (and Toggle is even cheaper than local sims in some countries).

If anyone knows of a better worldwide option where I never have to use more than the same 2 SIMs (dual sim phone), I am always interested. Unfortunately, Piranha comes out too expensive.

Sorry i have to agree with fsotirop, i do not know where you are getting your info from but it is clearly wrong,

1. Toggle have great rates i agree and i use one myself, but they are limited to 13 countries, as soon as you go outside of those countries you are paying a lot more, for instance outside of the Toggle countries but still in EU,
example Austria.

Toggle charge
Making calls 0.23£/min
Receiving calls 0.19£
Send SMS 0.07£
Data 0.67£ per Mb

Piranha charge
Making calls 0.09£/min call-back or 0.12 direct dial
Receiving calls 0.04£
Send SMS 0.09£
Data 0.10£ per Mb

2. outside of the EU toggle is very expensive for instance Thailand.

Toggle charge
Making calls 1.64£/min
Receiving calls 0.19£
Send SMS 0.48£
Data 1.34£ per Mb

Piranha charge
Making calls 0.32£/min direct dial
Receiving calls 0.12£
Send SMS 0.20£
Data 0.20£ per Mb

big difference and don't even think of making a local call on Toggle in Thailand, not at 2.35£ per min and looking at Piranhas rates for local its 0.33£, and to receive a call in Germany is 0.05£ and not 0.14£ as you have stated.

3. Travelsim/Onesim/Airbaltic may have free incoming but they use high termination rate numbers which are very expensive for the caller to call. Its great if you don't mind your friends and family picking up a very large bill.

I have looked and taken what i think is the cheapest card with high term numbers, Airbalticcard

Thailand to UK for example.

Airbaltic charge
Making calls 0.62£/min
Receiving calls 0.0£
Send SMS 0.35£
Data 1.50£ per Mb

Piranha charge
Making calls 0.32£/min direct dial
Receiving calls 0.12£
Send SMS 0.20£
Data 0.20£ per Mb

Calling a Airbalticard from UK can cost anywhere between 0.50£ and £1.50£ depending on operator.
Calling a Piranha UK number between in bundle and 0.25£
Calling the US number between 0.01 and 0.25£

You also have the added extra on Piranha of VoIP which is globally free to receive and attaches all your numbers for outgoing and incoming calls.

Please feel free to disagree.

If i have missed anything in my calculations, anyone reading, please correct me. I do like this site and there is some very good info for travelers everyone opinion is great, but we need to give them the correct info and deal in facts.

[MBK]

Originally Posted by gkeeper

Sorry i have to agree with fsotirop, i do not know where you are getting your info from but it is clearly wrong,

No, it's not.

Originally Posted by gkeeper

1. Toggle have great rates i agree and i use one myself, but they are limited to 13 countries, as soon as you go outside of those countries you are paying a lot more,

This is why I said I am using a dual SIM phone: Toggle for Toggle countries (where I am often) and Travelsim for worldwide coverage.

And both SIMs are used with iphone/android callback.

Originally Posted by gkeeper

for instance outside of the Toggle countries but still in EU,
example Austria.

Toggle charge
Making calls 0.23£/min
Receiving calls 0.19£
Send SMS 0.07£
Data 0.67£ per Mb

Piranha charge
Making calls 0.09£/min call-back or 0.12 direct dial
Receiving calls 0.04£
Send SMS 0.09£
Data 0.10£ per Mb

No, Austria is free (0.00£) to receive calls with Toggle.

So as I use callback I call 50+ countries landlines for free & cheapest worldwide mobile rates from Austria using the Toggle SIM.

The same goes for the 20 countries where Toggle has free incoming.

Then I pay 0.19£ per call (no minute charge) in the 16 other countries where Toggle charges 0.19£ per incoming call, or 0.09£/min with the Travelsim.

All of the other countries where it is more expensive, are more expensive with Piranha also; this means Piranha is of absolutely no use to me.

Originally Posted by gkeeper

2. outside of the EU toggle is very expensive for instance Thailand.

Toggle charge
Making calls 1.64£/min
Receiving calls 0.19£
Send SMS 0.48£
Data 1.34£ per Mb

Piranha charge
Making calls 0.32£/min direct dial
Receiving calls 0.12£
Send SMS 0.20£
Data 0.20£ per Mb

Again, here Toggle charges 0.19£ per incoming call (no minute charge), this means I call 50+ countries landlines for free and the cheapest possible rates to Mobiles worldwide with betamax callback.

Or I can use the Travelsim: 0.09£/min callback.

Piranha is more expensive even with callback because they charge so much for incoming calls.

The only good point for Piranha is the cheaper data, but then if you really want to use data properly 0.20£/Mb is again too expensive. The only viable option is a data plan and this means a local SIM (or perhaps the new T-Mobile, AT&T, Vodafone, etc... world data plans. Anyway, Piranha is a gain out of the window).

Originally Posted by gkeeper

big difference and don't even think of making a local call on Toggle in Thailand, not at 2.35£ per min and looking at Piranhas rates for local its 0.33£,

With Toggle: 0.19£ per incoming call (no minute charge) + callback for local call to Thailand = free (no per minute charge) to Thai Landlines & Mobiles but 0.19£ one time charge to setup the incoming call on Toggle.

Or again: 0.09£/min to call Thailand with callback on Travelsim.

Piranha is 0.33£/min? -> Out of the window.

Originally Posted by gkeeper

and to receive a call in Germany is 0.05£ and not 0.14£ as you have stated.

This is what I said:

"France 0.04£, Germany 0.05£ for incoming calls. Germany is even more expensive with Piranha (0.14£ Mobile)."

0.14£ to call German mobile phones with Piranha which is more expensive.

Originally Posted by gkeeper

3. Travelsim/Onesim/Airbaltic may have free incoming but they use high termination rate numbers which are very expensive for the caller to call. Its great if you don't mind your friends and family picking up a very large bill.

Many Telecom providers in Europe are offering plans with free calling to EU : the +372 Estonian number is an EU call. So, free to call if you have such a plan. (example, contacts in Switzerland using Swisscom call me for free on the +372).

Otherwise, today everyone has internet at home and so everyone tends to be using SIP calling for telephone calls (even the telecom providers are offering home internet + phone bundles and these phones connected to internet routers are SIP calls).

This means, today people are using SIP phones at home. So, they add a cheap SIP provider in their phone settings and it costs them 0.09£ to call me on the Travelsim (and they also have all of the other advantages : 50+ countries free landline calls and cheapest mobile calls worldwide).


Those who don't have internet at home or those who don't have an EU calling plan can call a local landline number.

And those who don't want to do anything to call cheaper and prefer to call with an expensive provider, that's their choice.

[gkeeper]

Originally Posted by MBK

No, it's not.



This is why I said I am using a dual SIM phone: Toggle for Toggle countries (where I am often) and Travelsim for worldwide coverage.

And both SIMs are used with iphone/android callback.




No, Austria is free (0.00£) to receive calls with Toggle.

So as I use callback I call 50+ countries landlines for free & cheapest worldwide mobile rates from Austria using the Toggle SIM.

The same goes for the 20 countries where Toggle has free incoming.

Then I pay 0.19£ per call (no minute charge) in the 16 other countries where Toggle charges 0.19£ per incoming call, or 0.09£/min with the Travelsim.

All of the other countries where it is more expensive, are more expensive with Piranha also; this means Piranha is of absolutely no use to me.



Again, here Toggle charges 0.19£ per incoming call (no minute charge), this means I call 50+ countries landlines for free and the cheapest possible rates to Mobiles worldwide with betamax callback.

Or I can use the Travelsim: 0.09£/min callback.

Piranha is more expensive even with callback because they charge so much for incoming calls.

The only good point for Piranha is the cheaper data, but then if you really want to use data properly 0.20£/Mb is again too expensive. The only viable option is a data plan and this means a local SIM (or perhaps the new T-Mobile, AT&T, Vodafone, etc... world data plans. Anyway, Piranha is a gain out of the window).



With Toggle: 0.19£ per incoming call (no minute charge) + callback for local call to Thailand = free (no per minute charge) to Thai Landlines & Mobiles but 0.19£ one time charge to setup the incoming call on Toggle.

Or again: 0.09£/min to call Thailand with callback on Travelsim.

Piranha is 0.33£/min? -> Out of the window.


This is what I said:

"France 0.04£, Germany 0.05£ for incoming calls. Germany is even more expensive with Piranha (0.14£ Mobile)."

0.14£ to call German mobile phones with Piranha which is more expensive.




Many Telecom providers in Europe are offering plans with free calling to EU : the +372 Estonian number is an EU call. So, free to call if you have such a plan. (example, contacts in Switzerland using Swisscom call me for free on the +372).

Otherwise, today everyone has internet at home and so everyone tends to be using SIP calling for telephone calls (even the telecom providers are offering home internet + phone bundles and these phones connected to internet routers are SIP calls).

This means, today people are using SIP phones at home. So, they add a cheap SIP provider in their phone settings and it costs them 0.09£ to call me on the Travelsim (and they also have all of the other advantages : 50+ countries free landline calls and cheapest mobile calls worldwide).


Those who don't have internet at home or those who don't have an EU calling plan can call a local landline number.

And those who don't want to do anything to call cheaper and prefer to call with an expensive provider, that's their choice.

I am taking these rates direct from there web sites, if you want to use VoIP piranha is cheaper and is free to receive globally and comes with the same incoming and outgoing numbers i.e Thailand to UK £0.01 and free to receive, now you will not get much cheaper than that:>) but hey you stick with what makes you happy.

[MBK]

Originally Posted by gkeeper

I am taking these rates direct from there web sites, if you want to use VoIP piranha is cheaper and is free to receive globally and comes with the same incoming and outgoing numbers i.e Thailand to UK £0.01 and free to receive, now you will not get much cheaper than that:>) but hey you stick with what makes you happy.

Voip has quality/stability/availability issues.

Furhtermore, if you use VOIP the same providers I am using for callback also have VOIP, cheaper than Piranha (your example: Thailand is free to call landline & mobiles, UK: free to landlines, 0.005(half a cent) to mobiles).

-> Piranha is even more expensive for VOIP.

==> Toggle + callback (= good call quality/availability) is cheaper than Piranha VOIP in the 20 Toggle countries.

So with Piranha you have only 2 choices:

1. You use Voip but you have quality & availability issues.
2. You pay a lot more than the other SIMs with callback.

Piranha is out of the window for me. Perhaps only good in specific situations / countries for data and for the people who don't want to use callback on their iphone/android. This means, for voice, it's good for the people who prefer to pay more to make a direct call (but given how transparent the iphone/andoind callback applications have become today, why pay more? And in most countries you pay A LOT more.).

[gkeeper]

Originally Posted by MBK

Voip has quality/stability/availability issues.

Furhtermore, if you use VOIP the same providers I am using for callback also have VOIP, cheaper than Piranha (your example: Thailand is free to call landline & mobiles, UK: free to landlines, 0.005(half a cent) to mobiles).

-> Piranha is even more expensive for VOIP.

==> Toggle + callback (= good call quality/availability) is cheaper than Piranha VOIP in the 20 Toggle countries.

So with Piranha you have only 2 choices:

1. You use Voip but you have quality & availability issues.
2. You pay a lot more than the other SIMs with callback.

Piranha is out of the window for me. Perhaps only good in specific situations / countries for data and for the people who don't want to use callback on their iphone/android. This means, for voice, it's good for the people who prefer to pay more to make a direct call (but given how transparent the iphone/andoind callback applications have become today, why pay more? And in most countries you pay A LOT more.).

Your solution is way to complicated for your average user who just wants to pop in a Sim and save some money while enjoying there holiday, and high termination numbers used BY FREE INCOMING SIMS (excluding Toggle) are very expensive for the caller to call. I have never heard of any operator giving international calling to high term numbers within there contracted bundled minutes, not without purchasing a bolt on, yes your friends and family can buy bolts ons and reduce the cost of calling your free roaming Estonian or Latvian number, but it will cost around £10.00 per month for a bolt on with 100 mins of calling time, and if you don't have a bolt on its £0.40 on standard contract and £1.50 on PAYG. (example taken from O2 UK).
I use a local UK incoming number with Piranha which i know is in bundle from either land line or mobile which makes it extremely cheap for friends and family to call me, there is however a monthly charge of £1.25, this is on a one months rolling contract, I know they have other local numbers available in many countries, but i am unsure of the costs i am sure they will vary, and if i have access to a good WI-FI connection its free to receive calls.
So far i have never had any major issues with the VoIP quality, in fact sometimes on a good WI-FI connection the quality is better than most GSM networks, and that should be the same case for most VoIP providers.

Question on VoIP, which provider do you use and can you use your toggle or Travelsim numbers for incoming and outgoing calls, do you have to top up the VoIP or is it linked to one of your Sims, if not whats the min top up limit required, and if possible what Betamax call-back app and requirements for use.
Thanks in advance for info.

[MBK]

Originally Posted by gkeeper

Your solution is way to complicated for your average user who just wants to pop in a Sim and save some money while enjoying there holiday,

The only thing needed is to install a free app from your phone's app store (I recommend Mobilevoip or phone2phone, there are others), load some prepaid credit and you can start calling.

But anyway, what you are describing doesn't concern the usual prepaid roaming user who already went through the trouble of ordering a prepaid SIM from the Internet, as it is even easier to get the app from the phone's app store than it is to order a SIM from some website.

Originally Posted by gkeeper

and high termination numbers used BY FREE INCOMING SIMS (excluding Toggle) are very expensive for the caller to call.

Not at all. It cost 0.09£/min to call.

As I said, today carriers are replacing the old home phones with SIP phones all over the world. And once you have a SIP phone you add any cheap provider you want.

And these cheap providers also offer landline numbers in the major countries. I.ex: you call the UK landline and then you dial the number you want, i.ex: 0.09£ to call the +372 mobile (or free to call the +1 Toggle number, 0.005 to UK Toggle number).

It's so easy, stop looking for excuses to pay more. But if you prefer to pay more, please do so.

Originally Posted by gkeeper

I have never heard of any operator giving international calling to high term numbers within there contracted bundled minutes, not without purchasing a bolt on, yes your friends and family can buy bolts ons and reduce the cost of calling your free roaming Estonian or Latvian number, but it will cost around £10.00 per month for a bolt on with 100 mins of calling time, and if you dont have a bolt on its £0.40 on standard contract and £1.50 on PAYG. (example taken from O2 UK)

If your friends prefer to stop calling you because they prefer to keep calling with their outrageously expensive operators, I think it's better to look for some new friends. But that's just my opinion.

And BTW, calling your friends back after they ring you comes out cheaper for you than using Piranha to receive the call. (for convenience and worldwide coverage I am assuming a dual-SIM phone setup with Toggle + AnyTravelsim with betamax callback).

Originally Posted by gkeeper

Question on VoIP, which provider do you use and can you use your toggle or Travelsim numbers for incoming and outgoing calls, do you have to top up the VoIP or is it linked to one of your Sims, if not whats the min top up limit.

I use the betamax providers. They have been working great for the past 10 years.

They have nothing to do with the SIM. I even recommend to setup the home landline phone with this, as it is much cheaper than anything else.

Minimum top up is 10$.

Rates here: http://progx.ch/home-voip-prixbetamax-3-1-2.html

They allow callback, local access numbers, SIP and VOIP.

You can set any caller ID you want. So, for example, if you set your Mobile number as caller ID people don't even know you aren't calling directly with your phone.

[gkeeper]

Originally Posted by MBK

The only thing needed is to install a free app from your phone's app store (I recommend Mobilevoip or phone2phone, there are others), load some prepaid credit and you can start calling.

But anyway, what you are describing doesn't concern the usual prepaid roaming user who already went through the trouble of ordering a prepaid SIM from the Internet, as it is even easier to get the app from the phone's app store than it is to order a SIM from some website.



Not at all. It cost 0.09£/min to call.

As I said, today carriers are replacing the old home phones with SIP phones all over the world. And once you have a SIP phone you add any cheap provider you want.

And these cheap providers also offer landline numbers in the major countries. I.ex: you call the UK landline and then you dial the number you want, i.ex: 0.09£ to call the +372 mobile (or free to call the +1 Toggle number, 0.005 to UK Toggle number).

It's so easy, stop looking for excuses to pay more. But if you prefer to pay more, please do so.




If your friends prefer to stop calling you because they prefer to keep calling with their outrageously expensive operators, I think it's better to look for some new friends. But that's just my opinion.

And BTW, calling your friends back after they ring you comes out cheaper for you than using Piranha to receive the call. (for convenience and worldwide coverage I am assuming a dual-SIM phone setup with Toggle + AnyTravelsim with betamax callback).



I use the betamax providers. They have been working great for the past 10 years.

They have nothing to do with the SIM. I even recommend to setup the home landline phone with this, as it is much cheaper than anything else.

Minimum top up is 10$.

Rates here: http://progx.ch/home-voip-prixbetamax-3-1-2.html

They allow callback, local access numbers, SIP and VOIP.

You can set any caller ID you want. So, for example, if you set your Mobile number as caller ID people don't even know you aren't calling directly with your phone.

No need to get personnel, there are to many horror stories of friends and family being ripped off by high termination numbers. To cap it all a lot of providers are now blocking calls, not all VoIP providers allow calls to +372 numbers. i am sure you will find many references to operators blocking calls to +372 numbers or charging more on this forum. Its a personal choice and so far i have had no issues with using Toggle or Piranha (outside of Toggle countries).

[MBK]

Originally Posted by gkeeper

I use a local UK incoming number with Piranha which i know is in bundle from either land line or mobile which makes it extremely cheap for friends and family to call me, there is however a monthly charge of £1.25, this is on a one months rolling contract, I know they have other local numbers available in many countries, but i am unsure of the costs i am sure they will vary, and if i have access to a good WI-FI connection its free to receive calls.

Yes, I understand.

With Toggle you also have the UK number, and you receive the call for free in 20 countries. (now add a betamax callback to this - perhaps even on the +1 Toggle number which is free to call with betamax if you don't want to pay for the 0.005 it currently cost to call the UK number - and see how cheap it gets... with free outgoing to 50+ country landlines, even some mobiles ).

From Toggle SIM (with betamax) completely free calls to mobiles in US, Canada, Puerto Rico, Thailand, Singapore, China, Malaysia, South Korea, ... 0.005 to many EU mobiles.

And then generally, the countries that are cheaper than Toggle with Piranha, come out cheaper with a Travelsim + betamax (most of the world will be a lot cheaper).

Originally Posted by gkeeper

So far i have never had any major issues with the VoIP quality, in fact sometimes on a good WI-FI connection the quality is better than most GSM networks, and that should be the same case for most VoIP providers.

When I was talking about unstable VOIP quality, I was meaning on the go (3G, wifi hotspots,...). This is why I am using callback.

But yes you are right, VOIP will be good with a solid connection.

[MBK]

One more thing:

Even with 0 credit you can still receive free incoming calls in 154 countries with the Travelsims.

With 0 credit, call forwarding also keeps working to the same 154 countries (landlindes and all mobiles in the 154 countries).

With Piranha, what happens when your credit suddenly runs out, especially when you find yourself in a difficult or urgent situation, lost abroad? Does Piranha leave you hanging out to dry in the sun?

Piranha may be good in some situations / use cases. But it certainly isn't the best international SIM.