Are "international" SIMS becoming obsolete?

[snidely]

Originally Posted by kormack8

I've heard of UMA but I'm wondering if you guys can help me out with some info:

2. Wouldn't the use of UMA be costly if you happen to stroll out of a wifi range while you're in conversation and the call transfers over to a mobile network?

1. Would use of UMA be fully automated when I'm in any WiFi hotspot? No need to enter any login details for that particular hotspot?

1. Under T-Mobile USA version - a UMA capable phone, when in the U.S., will automatically register on a wifi hotspot IF you have saved it in your phone. Once you leave that hotspot it will auto switch to a TM cell tower. IOW, you can go back and forth on the same call w.o. it dropping The first time you enter a wifi hotspot area you need to "scan for available networks". You pick one, and, if it isn't "open" will be prompted to enter the security code for that system. Once you do that and save the info, it will register automatically.
If you are overseas and leave the wifi area, the call will drop, because there is no u.S. TM cell signall to pick up.
The BB allows you to enter ID'sand PW's to register the same way you would register a computer.
The BB, and, i think, a couple other UMA capable phones, allow you to select your preferred method of connecting - Cell only, Cell preferred, wifi only, wifi preferred. When overseas set for wifi only so you don't accidentally make an expensive call via cell tower. i always "hard forward" all incoming to VM. If someone leaves a msg., I will get the vM waiting icon.


2. T-M will take all calls out of your pkg. of minutes - unless you pay $10/mo. for unlimited calling via UMA. Since I am on an unlimited plan at $50/mo., this is a non-issue. (TM, starting a few months ago, offered users who had been with them unlimited minutes for $50/mo. Additional lines on account, $40. The regular unlimited rate, like other carriers, is $100.) As mentioned above, the call will drop if you leave wifi and are not within range of a TM tower.


Using this overseas is like being on a U.S. cell tower. If you are in Paris and call a Paris number, you will be billed the high intl. calling rates you would pay if you were home. You need to use one of the many dial around services. I use "MyGlobalTalk' (division of Voicestick), which has an app for my BB and processes the outgoing intl. call automatically.


TM does not promote using UMA overseas (guess they feel they would lose money on their high roaming fees?) - but will, according to posts on HowardForums, take support calls on this.
I started using this more than 2 years ago and was a beta tester.

[Stu]

UMA is a VOIP protocol similar to SIP, IAX, and Skype's proprietary protocol. An UMA protocol will not bypass the login process on a hotspot. An UMA equipped Blackberry has a web browser that can navigate through them. Additionally, Boingo (a wifi consolidator) has a global roaming package for PDAs for US$8.95 a month. There is a public beta client for Boingo which you can download. The combination of this will give you free calling to the US in a number of places. It may also work with a similarly equipped Rogers device with "Home Zone" calling. I've heard conflicting information about whether Rogers bans foreign IP addresses from its range.

Orange UK has a similar service called "Unique" and they are about release a version of the HTC Touch for. Windows Mobile supports a client called Devicescape which can be preprogrammed to log on to a number of hotspots automatically. They have a similar program for the E-Series Nokia and the iPhone. Coupled with a number of programs (Fring, Pennytel, Truphone, etc) this also makes a powerful mobile VOIP device.

To Snidely, a SIP client is just a VOIP program for use with the SIP protocol. Eyebeam, XLite, Gizmo are examples of this. Additionally Fring supports it. You can set a conditional divert so that the if the program is online it rings, but if it is shut off the call bounces on to your international SIM saving even more money.

To Andy, note my disclaimer. I'm afraid that the new deal won't be as good as Three Like Home, but it still may be a better deal than cruise ship internet.

My ATT 3g Blackberry has included on device data and that has covered me in a number of places. I may be able to get buy with it and say half an hour of cruise ship internet for heavy downloads of an already edited mailbox. Additionally my hotels in Stockholm in Copenhagen are Boingo hotspots and my wife has diamond status which means we will probably have club status for free. There is usually free internet in the club. I don't want to discuss all my strategies in public forums but I've worked out a few.

[DRNewcomb]

Originally Posted by snidely

I have a question: Wouldn't some 'smart" phones that can load and use Skype do the same sort of thing? How about users of Google Voice?

I have an E61 with Fring. Given WiFi access I can talk on Skype, Google Voice, ICQ or Windows Messenger.

With wifi around the world becoming more ubiquitous, and more and more people using smart phones, it would seem this is what roamers will do more and more.

It's not all that ubiquitous. Maybe in your hotel room and some restaurants. What has changed is that people now look at cellular roaming more as a way to be contacted, receive SMS, etc. When you need to talk you wait until you have WiFi access and make calls for cheap.

This makes me remember something. Who else remembers going to an "International Call Center" to call home when traveling? If you never did this, you went to this office where there were a number of phone booths a cashier. You gave the cashier the number you wanted to call and were then assigned to a booth. After your call you paid the cashier. I actually did this as recently as 2003 but those were special circumstances.

Today we all expect to be able to call the other side of the globe for free. The world has gotten very small.

[snidely]

DR -
I agree that wifi (be it UMA, Skype, etc.) is best used for outgoing. I use BB email for incoming. It is a lot cheaper getting/sending email via BB (less than $1/day for unlimited email) than the cost of someone sending SMS to you or you sending SMS out.

When recently in Zambia, I could get BB email at a place along the Zambezi that had satellite internet. It was too slow and too much latency for a reliable UMA voice call. When connected, the voice quality was almost useless. The service, I was told, wasn't cheap. You pay the internet service provider by the mb. The cell system did not have BB service. There is cell service in areas that don't have electricity.
If I could have connected via UMA it probably would have used up a lot of the guys expensive data pkg.

If the E61 can make use of Skype as easily as you can use it on a computer - why don't more people roam that way? IF I read the Skype blogs correctly, it appears that an app. for BB's is on the way. Is using Skype on the E61 as easy as making a regular cell call?
I have never used Skype Out - which is what would be needed to make the app. useful on a cell phone.
It will be interesting to see what G does w. Google Voice. I have two G numbers, but only use them so I can have a local number in Miami to give out and one to use as an additional number to give out in the Bay Area. I gave up my landline a year ago and tsfrd. my 35 y.o. number to my TM cell.

...mike

[hkr]

UMA is an interesting techology, but I have not been able to try it. Can someone please advise a link to a list of providers who support UMA?

However, I believe in protocols that are open to anyone: SIP allows anyone to start their own service, interface whatever with whatever... This helps keeping end-user prices down as there will always be fierce competition, whereas with UMA you are bound to your own mobile provider.

What I see as a major problem with wifi SIP roaming is that free wifi hotspots are not that easy to find, and even if you find them, they might not work properly with SIP. They allow web browsing, some allow POP3 or IMAP mail retrieval. Some SIP providers therefore allow connection using TCP rather than UDP, and on ports like 80 (normally used by http)... Problem is sometimes not firewals, but multiple NAT-ting and other problems. I have never tried to use SIP via VPN, but I have heard people say that it can often help.

However, I see that many people now use Skype and other VoIP software on their laptops for making calls while abroad. Using their phones for this is not yet that frequent. It is partly because a relatively small portion of phones available today offer wifi and voip, and those that do are relatively expensive.

[Stu]

Fring's client will connect better to most SIP services than a raw SIP client. The same with Nimbuzz. I think they transcode your connection. I think it is proprietary to them and then SIP from them to your Asterisks box. Additionally, Gizmo5 will sell you an "OpenSky" connection for $20 per year which will allow you to put your Asterisks box on Skype.

The easiest way to try UMA is to buy a TMobile US prepaid SIM and UMA compatible phone. TMobile prepaid work on UMA. It is not a great deal for someone in Hungary, but won't break the bank if you are an experimenter.

I think this would be a great product for one of the roaming SIMs to offer. I don't know what the backend equipment costs, but UMA works well.

[snidely]

HKR - Go to umatoday.com to see a list of carriers that use UMA. I assume, if they wanted, they could prevent you from connecting to an IP outside your home country. Whether any carrier does - I don't know.

Stu and DRN - I look upon you two as the tech gurus here. Can I conclude that some (most?) smart phones, like Iphone and BlackBerry, are (theoretically) able to process voice calls via wifi connection as simply as making regular cell calls? If Blackberrys (Blackberries?) (and Iphones) can be made to do this, that alone would cover a large number of users.

I usually don't carry a computer any more when I travel because of the email features of the BB - which are very inexpensive.

Stu - I assume there is quite an investment in backend costs for UMA and would have to be installed by the underlying carrier in Estonia, Isle of Mann etc. If what I say about installing a Skype type app in a phone is feasible - that would be much easier to implement.

The supposed reason T-M made UMA available in the U.S. was to give users solid mobile service when at home - even if you lived in an area w. littlle or noo cell service. It also was a selling point to get users to ditch their landline since you can make unlimited UMA calls to anywhere in the U.S. for $10/mo.

...mike

[DRNewcomb]

Originally Posted by snidely

Stu and DRN - I look upon you two as the tech gurus here. Can I conclude that some (most?) smart phones, like Iphone and BlackBerry, are (theoretically) able to process voice calls via wifi connection as simply as making regular cell calls? If Blackberrys (Blackberries?) (and Iphones) can be made to do this, that alone would cover a large number of users.

Well, the phone must have WiFi first. I'm not sure what generalizations can be made. I thought that the E61 would do VPN but it turns out that the VPN is so difficult to configure that it is virtually useless. I don't know to what extent carriers go to cripple the phones they sell, even to the extent of disabling factory capabilities.

I usually don't carry a computer any more when I travel because of the email features of the BB - which are very inexpensive.

Stu - I assume there is quite an investment in backend costs for UMA and would have to be installed by the underlying carrier in Estonia, Isle of Mann etc. If what I say about installing a Skype type app in a phone is feasible - that would be much easier to implement.

I'm not so sure it's that difficult. TruPhone does it with an app that logs you onto their SIP service. Once you are logged on they just route your calls via VOIP rather than forwarding to the cell. Now, as I understand it, this is less than UMA. UMA acts more as an alternate air interface. But the idea is that the MVNO can implement a system as an overlay without having to have access to the guts of the cellular switch.

N.B. I thought that Boingo Mobile might be a great way to augment my WiFi access overseas. It is pretty good but you have to take some things they say with a grain of salt. For instance, they list over 10,000 hotspots in Russia.
I started looking for hotspots in various cities. Turns out that something like 9,500 of that 10,000 are the nodes of the Moscow city-wide WiFi system. When you look in other cities, e.g. St. Petersburg, things get pretty slim. St. Petersburg list something like 5 hotels with Boingo Mobile service. Other than Moscow and St. Petersburg I couldn't find any Boingo Mobile hotspots. Bottom line is that I don't think you can really count on WiFi to be there when you need it.

[Stu]

If you are an American, also look at ATT's Premier wifi service which gives you access to the iPass roaming network for about half of rack rate.

[snidely]

Originally Posted by Stu

If you are an American, also look at ATT's Premier wifi service which gives you access to the iPass roaming network for about half of rack rate.

Stu -
They haven't taken my passport - yet.
BTW - You seem to create economic disasters all over the world. You list Detroit, and look what happened to that city, economically. In the past few months there have been several reports about Dubai having bad times.

I used to carry an ATT phone as a back up, but gave it up. The T-M phone, with occasional use of an intl. SIM seems to work for me.

...mike