Sim4travel T&C: daily charge

[bbob]

That's the problem with many providers, they hide some important facts in their small print.

some use ratio's or minimum use per month/ 3 month, other have things like this but most of them hide it. They advertise you will receive free raoming but it's questionable when they use these strange terms.

sim4travel is like many others good in hidding these things. They don't even have a email address, you can only write or call them.
Recentrly they registered a domein name 1 letter different from united mobile where um customers could get one of their free cards. It said free postage but this was not free only the UK postage was free. After I compleined they changed this on their website to uk only free postage. They did promise me a to sent me a fre card. Won't use it but it will just cost them money.
Stay away from them and get a card from easyroam or mr ed, you just pay a samll yearly fee, believe 10 pounds and that's it.

@bbob

... come on, that´s bullsh.t. Just stay straight with the facts!

They don't even have a email address, you can only write or call them.

Sure they have an e-mail address, I see from reading your comment you did not made any research. Did you read the "Terms & Conditions", like you should BEFORE you agree to any contract? The e-mail address from S4T is s4t.support@sim4travel.com.

Recentrly they registered a domein name 1 letter different from united mobile where um customers could get one of their free cards.

So what do you have to judge them for their "guerilla marketing"? If you would look neutral at this whole thing you would see that the registration of this website was about 4-7 days before the blackout of UM, so the rumours and the known facts inside the circle of the competitors (and they do know each other) should have been a wake up call for UM customers.

It said free postage but this was not free only the UK postage was free.

It says CLEARLY on the web page "FREE shipping within the UK", so where is the problem? When you are outside of the UK you pay for shipping, absolutely normal business behaviour. UM did also charged for shipping, so what ...?

They did promise me a to sent me a fre card. Won't use it but it will just cost them money.

Great attitude, grab everything you can and hope you can use everything for free ... Thats the reason why no value can be raised in this business, where no money is there will no company stay long in the market.

Stay away from them and get a card from easyroam or mr ed, you just pay a samll yearly fee, believe 10 pounds and that's it.

Sh.t advise ..., compare the prices for frequent use and you will see that the effective usage costs will (in- and outbound calls) clearly show that even with the "daily usage" fee the S4T SIM will be less cost intensive then the Travelsim offer.

I am sorry for the new post but I can't edit the old post.

So,.... when you compare the average prices and you have say 300 minutes of outgoing calls every month with your TravelSIM, you have a average price of outgoing calls from 36 Pence per minute. That makes a total of about 1188 Pounds within 11 month of business usage in one year.

With S4T you have a average price of 25 pence per minute outbound call, this leads to a total of 825 Pounds plus your "daily charge" fee (25 working days each month, 11 month every year makes a total of 107,25 Pounds). So you pay in total with S4T 932,25 Pounds.

That makes a difference of 255,75 Pounds!

In short words SIM4Travel is 21,75% cheaper then TravelSIM.

[bbob]

Originally Posted by JohnDoe

@bbob

... come on, that´s bullsh.t. Just stay straight with the facts!



Sure they have an e-mail address, I see from reading your comment you did not made any research. Did you read the "Terms & Conditions", like you should BEFORE you agree to any contract? The e-mail address from S4T is s4t.support@sim4travel.com.



So what do you have to judge them for their "guerilla marketing"? If you would look neutral at this whole thing you would see that the registration of this website was about 4-7 days before the blackout of UM, so the rumours and the known facts inside the circle of the competitors (and they do know each other) should have been a wake up call for UM customers.



It says CLEARLY on the web page "FREE shipping within the UK", so where is the problem? When you are outside of the UK you pay for shipping, absolutely normal business behaviour. UM did also charged for shipping, so what ...?



Great attitude, grab everything you can and hope you can use everything for free ... Thats the reason why no value can be raised in this business, where no money is there will no company stay long in the market.



Sh.t advise ..., compare the prices for frequent use and you will see that the effective usage costs will (in- and outbound calls) clearly show that even with the "daily usage" fee the S4T SIM will be less cost intensive then the Travelsim offer.

Johndoe read what I write.

Yes it NOW states free postage within the UK. Before it read Free postage so there was no messages this would only apply to the UK. The changed this after I complained about this.

As for the mailaddress, don't you find it strange for a company to hide a mailaddress in the terms. When you want to contact a company will you look for the mailaddress in their terms, I don't an I thing 99.9% would not. You go to contact pages and there should be a mailaddress. Ask yourself the question why would they hide a mailaddress in the terms, there must be a reason for that.

As for registering a domain, read the forum here, you can call it marketing but this type of marketing goes to far. No problem putting a sign on your website saying free exchange but regsitering a competitors domainname 1 letter different is crossing the line and reflect the moral values of this company.

And my advice to stay away, this thread started about hidding a daily cost inside the terms. Yes hidding beause that is what sim4travel is doing hidiing things in their terms, email address, daily cost when using the sim. You might find this normal but I like to deal with companies that are honest and open about what they are offering. Hiddin things means you want to screw your customers because you know that 9/10 people alsmost never read the terms, that how it works in real life. sim4travel know this and yes they take advantage of this because the can now charge customers extra. Some might never find out, other when finding it out are pissed and go elsewhere.

Even when comparing prices it depends a lot on how often you call, do you call only once a day or do you receive more calls that making calls.
Many calls are less than 1 minute so based on that using easyraom you know what you are paying, using sim4travel you have to do your math.
In you example 300 minutes s4t might be cheaper, what aboput when you only call 50 minutes a month but receive calls every day. Things will look different than. So no you can't say s4t is cheaper or expensive, it depends on how you use it.

I repeat myself, stay away from companies that hide things in their terms. The have a reason for doing this, begin not open towards you as a customers. As a customer you than have to ask yourself the question do you really whant to use the service of a company that is trying to hide things.

@bobb

I do read what you write, and you write sh.t.

Yes it NOW states free postage within the UK. Before it read Free postage so there was no messages this would only apply to the UK. The changed this after I complained about this.

Don´t give me that crap, when you complain all and everything will and is been changed. Sure ... EVEN if they have stated the free postage without saying "just within UK" what do you await? The shipment to the recipient is no typical "Telco" competition, you always have to count with the fact to pay shipping costs. This a absolutely stupid behaviour, to judge on shipping. It says nothing about call quality, about the product quality or even about reliability.

As for the mailaddress, don't you find it strange for a company to hide a mailaddress in the terms. When you want to contact a company will you look for the mailaddress in their terms, I don't an I thing 99.9% would not. You go to contact pages and there should be a mailaddress. Ask yourself the question why would they hide a mailaddress in the terms, there must be a reason for that.

No it is not strange, why is it? They have published their e-mail address as the laws and restrictions within the EU requires. Are you one of those guys who jump in every contract without reading the contract or agreement and complaining then "OMG, I have been ripped of!!!"? Read the "Terms & Conditions" and you will find every information you need. Stop stating bullsh.t, get to the ground of the things before you give other peoples advices and tips, it bores the sh.t out of me, to read those comments and unproven stuff.

As for registering a domain, read the forum here, you can call it marketing but this type of marketing goes to far. No problem putting a sign on your website saying free exchange but regsitering a competitors domainname 1 letter different is crossing the line and reflect the moral values of this company.

So you are know making the rules for marketing? If UM does have a problem with this, they will let their lawyers have a look after it. But it is not up to YOU to tell others how bad those guys are.

And my advice to stay away, this thread started about hidding a daily cost inside the terms. Yes hidding beause that is what sim4travel is doing hidiing things in their terms, email address, daily cost when using the sim. You might find this normal but I like to deal with companies that are honest and open about what they are offering. Hiddin things means you want to screw your customers because you know that 9/10 people alsmost never read the terms, that how it works in real life. sim4travel know this and yes they take advantage of this because the can now charge customers extra. Some might never find out, other when finding it out are pissed and go elsewhere.

You still state things which you have not verified yourself. The fee you mention (daily charge) is not hide in the terms, baby when you write things go after it! The daily connection fee is clearly stated under the rate calculator. So open your eyes.

The e-mail address is published in the "Terms & Conditions", I don´t think that you are now making the rules where things have to stand, the daily costs are to find by the rate calculator, at a frequent place (an info place where you surely find it).

Because of the fact that you don´t read the "T&C" that does not mean that other peoples are so stupid too and for what do they charge extra? They are way cheaper than your recommended TravelSIM. Do you read sometimes what you write in forums?

Even when comparing prices it depends a lot on how often you call, do you call only once a day or do you receive more calls that making calls.

So when it depends on the usage profile, HOW can YOU recommend a service which is way more expensive. Your recommendations are unproven and your comments are totally negative driven, without any background.

Many calls are less than 1 minute so based on that using easyraom you know what you are paying, using sim4travel you have to do your math.
In you example 300 minutes s4t might be cheaper, what aboput when you only call 50 minutes a month but receive calls every day. Things will look different than. So no you can't say s4t is cheaper or expensive, it depends on how you use it.

What the hell are you writing here? TravelSIM does charge per minute so you always pay one minute even if you are just calling 10 seconds. I see you can't read, did I wrote business use? I still say S4T is way cheaper than TravelSIM, prove me wrong with an example.

I repeat myself, stay away from companies that hide things in their terms. The have a reason for doing this, begin not open towards you as a customers. As a customer you than have to ask yourself the question do you really whant to use the service of a company that is trying to hide things

And I repeat myself you give wrong recommendations to guys who look for help and you do not state informations neutral and this disqualifies you as trustworthy knowledge base. Rookie.

[prion]

Originally Posted by JohnDoe

@bobb

I do read what you write, and you write sh.t.



Don´t give me that crap, when you complain all and everything will and is been changed. Sure ... EVEN if they have stated the free postage without saying "just within UK" what do you await? The shipment to the recipient is no typical "Telco" competition, you always have to count with the fact to pay shipping costs. This a absolutely stupid behaviour, to judge on shipping. It says nothing about call quality, about the product quality or even about reliability.



No it is not strange, why is it? They have published their e-mail address as the laws and restrictions within the EU requires. Are you one of those guys who jump in every contract without reading the contract or agreement and complaining then "OMG, I have been ripped of!!!"? Read the "Terms & Conditions" and you will find every information you need. Stop stating bullsh.t, get to the ground of the things before you give other peoples advices and tips, it bores the sh.t out of me, to read those comments and unproven stuff.



So you are know making the rules for marketing? If UM does have a problem with this, they will let their lawyers have a look after it. But it is not up to YOU to tell others how bad those guys are.



You still state things which you have not verified yourself. The fee you mention (daily charge) is not hide in the terms, baby when you write things go after it! The daily connection fee is clearly stated under the rate calculator. So open your eyes.

The e-mail address is published in the "Terms & Conditions", I don´t think that you are now making the rules where things have to stand, the daily costs are to find by the rate calculator, at a frequent place (an info place where you surely find it).

Because of the fact that you don´t read the "T&C" that does not mean that other peoples are so stupid too and for what do they charge extra? They are way cheaper than your recommended TravelSIM. Do you read sometimes what you write in forums?



So when it depends on the usage profile, HOW can YOU recommend a service which is way more expensive. Your recommendations are unproven and your comments are totally negative driven, without any background.



What the hell are you writing here? TravelSIM does charge per minute so you always pay one minute even if you are just calling 10 seconds. I see you can't read, did I wrote business use? I still say S4T is way cheaper than TravelSIM, prove me wrong with an example.



And I repeat myself you give wrong recommendations to guys who look for help and you do not state informations neutral and this disqualifies you as trustworthy knowledge base. Rookie.

Are you connected to sim4travel in any way? Are you a representative?

@prion

... I just waited for this question. No I am not involved with S4T, I do not receive money from them and I am not on their payroll.

I don't like unproven and "grapevine" recommendations which are so obviously to rebut.

[bbob]

Originally Posted by prion

Are you connected to sim4travel in any way? Are you a representative?

Prion, Johndoe just has a problem with me and he looks like the kind of person that needs the words he is using, he has been using them in the past so I don't really care, some poeple are just liek that.

@johndoe, Just read Andy's comments I think that says enough.

@bbob

Prove me wrong and you have my respect, otherwise stay quiet.

@Andy

Cut me off from the forum access if you feel to do so. BUT bbobs statements still stay sh.t.

"bbob's point is made clearly enough, that for people who on some of their days of use only receive calls, or make only one or two very short outgoing calls, daily use charges will influence a decision which of these to choose"

Stay straight, HIS point of view did changed from business to "some" calls after calculating the real costs.

"To begin with, the postage issue was not clarified on the website"

I did saw myself the website on the first day it was launched and it stood "Free shipping", but do you REALLY request the same offer basics for foreign country customers concerning shipping?? Please stay realistic.

"Note also that the image of the rate chart is not fully shown in all browsers, for example Opera Mini on a phone, the bottom part being truncated and the connection charge not visible."

Ok now we are splitting hairs, you may not see by using the Opera Mini, but you also can not complete orders over Opera Mini (missing SSL support) and this will lead you back to a PC browser to complete an order. But this is nonsense to say "u can not see it with Opera Mini" and to blame anybody thats why for hiding any informations.

"I'd add a comment that Sim4travel said they'd changed terms and conditions again in January, and had contacted everyone to notify them. For me, this was untrue, and I asked them to send them again; they sent October again."

I did received their notification about the raise of rates and the change of the Terms&Conditions. For me, it is false to say they have not notified customers.

"Something S4T did change in January was to dramatically reduce the number of countries where incoming calls are free, so they are now the roaming SIM with the fewest - only 35, EU plus 8 others, fewer than O2 UK."

So what? Thats not the point we are talking about. UM did begun to charge the connection fee in that time.

"Also, large increases in their outgoing rates in those countries removed from the free list - now 49p, about double some rivals for some destinations"

Are you kidding? Lets talk about the recommended TravelSIM (a so called rival) average rate for outgoing calls within Europe 36 Pence. Average price charged by S4T 25 Pence. So where is the meaning of your post?

Guys, I don´t care if you are connected to TravelSIM or not, BUT for Christ sake STAY straight with the facts everybody post. In the case of TravelSIM and bobb this means that stop praising the TravelSIM to be the best thing since sliced bread or the raise of Christ from the dead in the Tomb Garden in Jerusalem.

[kupe]

Originally Posted by bbob

And my advice to stay away, this thread started about hidding a daily cost inside the terms...

Hmmm. I saw the info about their daily cost within about 15 seconds of my first visit to their website. It's right there on the page when you click the "Rates" tab.

And as for their shipping charge, it was clearly displayed when I went to the checkout page. If I felt it unreasonable, I simply would not have proceeded to Checkout.

As it is, I find both the daily fee and shipping reasonable. If one doesn't, then don't buy it.

Who has time to sweat these things like this anyway??

Kupe