SaverSim and Wizz

[andy]

Originally Posted by snidely

I have always assumed that the LARGE termination costs imposed by virtually all carriers outside the U.S., Canada and a few other countries all go to the carriers. Somebody can correct me if i'm wrong. As I mentioned above, it would be more fair if they shared some of that largess w. "resellers" like you. Unfortunately they don't.
We in the U.S. are spoiled in that it costs no more to call a cell phone than a landline. We can get unlimited calling, incoming/outgoing for under $100/mo. T-Mobile includes unlimited SMS w. that. Discount carriers that only cover limited geographical areas charge $40/mo. for unlimited voice. An ever increasing number of Americans have given up their landlines. You "foreigners" couldn't do this.
The fact that overseas cell carriers charge 10 times (or more) than a landline to terminate a call seems outrageous to most Americans.
I should mention extra charges for long distance within the U.S. have all but disappeared.
End of rant.

...mike

If you must keep lecturing us about how expensive our phone systems are, at least get some information a bit more in proportion

For some countries, a large chunk of the termination fees is taxation. As complaints on other forums show, rates to Pakistan have jumped significantly upwards twice in the last few months.

But perhaps many rates are not quite as high as you think. The wholesale termination rate to most UK mobiles is said to be just over 5p and is heading down to 4p within 2 years (that might be plus VAT). If your provider charges 22 or 30 cents, perhaps your complaint should be re-aimed.

I'm sorry to hear that your unlimited packages are so expensive [are they truly unlimited, or with a fair use policy?] I have 650 minutes a month, 500 sms, free internet access in UK, free incoming and 25p outgoing roaming in Europe (1000 minutes fair use policy on this bit). That's £20 a month; if I'd wanted 1200 minutes it could be £27. Without a new phone every 18 months save another £150, so rates could average under 2p. And that includes calls to IoM and Jersey global SIMs ...

Some business contracts now have international calls (dialled from home country) in the inclusive minutes. Can any American call international including European mobiles from their minutes? Your T-mobile has put its international calls up from 29 to 69 cents. My O2 is still 17p to many, including European mobiles, and can call forward at that, so was always one possible route to cheaper mobile calls when abroad even before the advent of global SIMs and the Eurotariff.

But we're mostly trying to consider prepaid on here, of course, instead of boring each other with contracts. The cheapest UK prepaid mvno rates to all UK mobiles are 8 and 9p a minute; they don't need the equivalent of $100 added to get the best rates, or to stay valid longer than a month or two, and don't use credit for incoming calls. So it's just about possible they might be better value than prepaid US SIMs. You may be telling UK customers they're being ripped off, but perhaps they won't agree.

Some mvno and main network prepaid brands here have European mobiles from 10p. USA is from 2p to 5p on at least half a dozen or probably closer to ten brands. Do you have any US brands with 3 cent rates to UK, not an extra cost for separate callthrough, but the total direct-dialled tariff?



Back a bit closer to the way this topic has developed: if main networks such as O2 and Wind can equal or undercut global roaming SIM rates in Europe, even specifically Bulgaria a mentioned, would they be actually losing money?

As for the outbreak of providers' accusations of unfair use by customers, and difficulty earning anything from some of them, I can receive calls free on my UK phone in for example Germany, its outgoing rates are cheaper than most global SIMs including this one, or I could make outgoing local and int'l calls for 8 or 9 cents using a German SIM. So I don't seem to need a global SIM there at the moment, but others might have forwarded incoming calls to theirs and have a local one as well.

Vodafone has had its Passport scheme for a while now, which lets its contract customers use their inclusive minutes while abroad, plus just a connection fee. Lots of short calls would be painful, but a one-hour received one would still be only 75p for UK Vodafone, and the caller if also on Vodafone might have only 3 minutes off their monthly allowance if calling off-peak. 2 x O2 UK prepaid SIMs can have 1000 minutes of calls a month from one at home to the other roaming in Europe for £15 between them. Are they really throwing money away? Global SIM providers might reckon they don't want these customers, but one wonders why the main networks would make these offers.

Perhaps the global SIMs and the main networks could still find ways of making their outgoing roaming rates a bit closer to indigenous ones. It shouldn't be so difficult; Orange UK was managing it over 10 years ago (e.g. about 3 or 5p within or home from Hong Kong or Singapore), before it joined the club of increasing roaming rates; back then, their calls home from Belgium or France were actually slightly cheaper than extra calls within the UK.

Maybe someday, maybe soon, instead of just development rumours and hopes, someone will actually launch a multi-ID SIM with cheaper rates based on it being local in a few or plenty of countries. But they need to be well chosen. Someone said to me months ago that in theory 100 IDs can be on one SIM; the trouble with this is that it might take 20 or 30 minutes to register on a network.