SaverSim and Wizz

[John247]

Mike,

Thanks for the welcome to the forum.

You state that "The IOM carrier is cleaning up". In callback do you realise how expensive the A leg can be? Check the best termination you can find to a Bulgarian mobile for instance. Most callback operators offer free inbound in Europe and beyond and in some instances a small profit is made on inbound (if called in peak times). I have used Bulgaria as an example and with all inbound calls nobody meakes a bean of profit and some organisations take a big loss hit.

Add on top of that unconnected B legs where the callback operator still has to pick up the bill for the expensive connected A leg.

Take all of this into account and please understand why i and others take dislike to inviduals who totally abuse the system.

Thanks

John

[dg7feq]

Hi John,
i can 100% understand your position.
The problem i have with many providers is that they put a huge sign "FREE INCOMING IN XXX COUNTRIES" on the website -- and a limitation ratio or whatever in the smallprint of the smallprint in the imprint.

Free incoming is free incoming. No matter if 1 minute or 10000 minutes.
Otherwise you can write "100 free incoming minutes per month" or "5 free incoming minutes for every minute of outgoing calls" or something like that.

The same discussion was here with internet providers who offer a data FLAT RATE but start to whine if a user uses 500 GB a month. These now have to name it "fair use flatrate" and quote the traffic cap clearly on the 1st page of the offer.

Chris

[bbob]

Originally Posted by dg7feq

Hi John,
i can 100% understand your position.
The problem i have with many providers is that they put a huge sign "FREE INCOMING IN XXX COUNTRIES" on the website -- and a limitation ratio or whatever in the smallprint of the smallprint in the imprint.

Free incoming is free incoming. No matter if 1 minute or 10000 minutes.
Otherwise you can write "100 free incoming minutes per month" or "5 free incoming minutes for every minute of outgoing calls" or something like that.

The same discussion was here with internet providers who offer a data FLAT RATE but start to whine if a user uses 500 GB a month. These now have to name it "fair use flatrate" and quote the traffic cap clearly on the 1st page of the offer.

Chris

I can only agree with you. Free is Free and unlimited is unlimited, fair use = never unlimited. If you advertise free incoming and there is a limit, it should be on the same page saying there is a limit and not in the small print. But this is marketing or is it really misinforming people as many don't read the small print ?

I see the same thing here for internet products, they advertise unlimited and the small print says free use. Take a dictionary, unlimited is unlimited and nothing else. Fair use is something completely different.

Fair use is also a nice marketing tools as it does not say anything. What is fair use and who decides what that is. 1 thing is for sure, not the customers and he nevers really knows what the seller means whith fair use. Fair use only creates discussions.
I don't think that most user have no problems if there are any limitations, say 200 gb per month for internet should be more than enough for 98% of the users. The same for other services.

[DRNewcomb]

Originally Posted by dg7feq

The problem i have with many providers is that they put a huge sign "FREE INCOMING IN XXX COUNTRIES" on the website -- and a limitation ratio or whatever in the smallprint of the smallprint in the imprint.

I feel that the service should be priced to allow the provider to make a profit no matter how it is used. Every CPP (i.e. "Free incoming") phone/SIM I've owned never had such restrictions, so I assumed that they made money no matter how you used it. Service providers should not promote their services based on a feature they don't want you to use.

[VladS]

Why not offer a direct toll bypass system for your customers over IP?!

I've asked several international MVNOs for an IP based (SIP, H.323 etc) termination mechanism where I would pay them for the incoming calls rather than my long distance carrier. Quite a few of un on this forum run our own little IP PBX where we forward a national DID to one of the Betamax brand carriers.

This is just my two cents of the day.

[DRNewcomb]

Originally Posted by VladS

I've asked several international MVNOs for an IP based (SIP, H.323 etc) termination mechanism where I would pay them for the incoming calls rather than my long distance carrier.

Telna Mobile did have a SIP feature, but it was not a CPP SIM.

[snidely]

Originally Posted by John247

Mike,

Thanks for the welcome to the forum.

You state that "The IOM carrier is cleaning up". In callback do you realise how expensive the A leg can be? Check the best termination you can find to a Bulgarian mobile for instance. Most callback operators offer free inbound in Europe and beyond and in some instances a small profit is made on inbound (if called in peak times). I have used Bulgaria as an example and with all inbound calls nobody meakes a bean of profit and some organisations take a big loss hit.

Add on top of that unconnected B legs where the callback operator still has to pick up the bill for the expensive connected A leg.

Take all of this into account and please understand why i and others take dislike to inviduals who totally abuse the system.

Thanks

John

John -
Explain to this dense person what happens to the money the IOM carrier collects when a caller dials your IOM number? I am sure the amount that is collected is more than enough (with a sizable profit margin) to deliver the call to Bulgaria et al. If the country called is a "high price termination country" (Cuba is an example) the price charged by the IOM carrier - or any other carrier - is much higher.
All carriers have a rate chart of what it costs you to receive calls in various countries. Normally it is based on their actual costs - other times it is based on what they think they can gouge.
A prime example is Costa Rica. Costa Rica has somewhat low termination when dialing both landline and cellular. Most cell carriers charge $2/min. or more when the cost to terminate to both landline and cell is about 5 cents.

Eg. T-Mobile U.S. (actually its forerunners) 10 years ago charged 29 cents LD charge to call most first world countries (both landline and cell). They also charged 29 cents a min. for incoming when roaming in those countries. About 3 years ago they more than tripled the roaming charge to 99 cents. LD calling to those countries was raised to 69 cents/min. - altho you can pay $5/mo. to get discounted rates of 6 to 9 cents.

Since Bulgaria is a high cost termination country, i'm sure it costs an IOM user more to to roam (and get an incoming call) in Bulgaria than France. As a reseller of IOM service you should be charging more. However, the IOM carrier keeps all that money. That's what isn't fair.


...mike