Poland: More new MVNO's: Telepin Mobi & 36.6

[Motel75]

Well now, POP is a sort-of fake MVNO, inasmuch as Orange kept the name going after introducing Orange Go, and didn't refer to Orange at all in advertising for it (at least at first).

I was a little bit annoyed after I bought Telepin Mobi -- there was lots of advertising for it at Inmedio newsagencies, but absolutely no price information made available (not even on the paper insert included with the SIM), just "cheap international calls" according to the poorly informed staff. I took a chance on 10 PLN, but having the only way to get the lower rate be via a dialthrough number is just cheating. I'll use it up, but next time I'll just buy a POP/Zetafon card for 5 PLN with 13 PLN credit instead and use the Orange dialthrough. Orange cards all have rubbish lose-all-your-credit non-cumulative expiration, so I will never top up, just buy a new SIM each time, and add the old one to my album...

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by Motel75

Well now, POP is a sort-of fake MVNO, inasmuch as Orange kept the name going after introducing Orange Go, and didn't refer to Orange at all in advertising for it (at least at first).

From this point of view, you're right. There were even many rumours that POP would be abandoned after Idea/Orange rebranding. But things went in a different way - now it's Orange POP and it even lost its old logo .

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by Motel75

I was a little bit annoyed after I bought Telepin Mobi -- there was lots of advertising for it at Inmedio newsagencies, but absolutely no price information made available (not even on the paper insert included with the SIM), just "cheap international calls" according to the poorly informed staff. I took a chance on 10 PLN, but having the only way to get the lower rate be via a dialthrough number is just cheating.

I'm afraid that Orange just didn't allow Telepin to implement direct dialling with lower rates.
But I don't understand why they offer only the cheapest calls. I think that in case it's impossible to charge various destination-dependent rates via a single accesss number, they should create at least another access number for European mobile phones.

Moreover, I was surprised the calling-card-brand MVNO is Telepin - there were annoucements it was going to be Telebonus...

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by Motel75

but next time I'll just buy a POP/Zetafon card for 5 PLN with 13 PLN credit instead and use the Orange dialthrough. Orange cards all have rubbish lose-all-your-credit non-cumulative expiration, so I will never top up, just buy a new SIM each time, and add the old one to my album...

Do you mean that one?
http://www.orange.pl/portal/map/map/...ID_POP_STARTER

"13 for 5" is marketing bullshit.
For 5 PLN you get 3 PLN credit, and after 2 first top-ups >- 25 PLN you'll get 2*5 PLN for calls/SMS to Orange only

[Motel75]

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Do you mean that one?
http://www.orange.pl/portal/map/map/...ID_POP_STARTER

"13 for 5" is marketing bullshit.
For 5 PLN you get 3 PLN credit, and after 2 first top-ups >- 25 PLN you'll get 2*5 PLN for calls/SMS to Orange only

Yes, silly me, I had a closer took at the terms and conditions, and of course Orange are a bunch of liars. Nothing new there. However, this was the card I was forced to buy, because the local store didn't have any Orange Go starter kits. And, it seems, Orange charged me for the calls that they blocked.

(An aside here: With things like this, I see Vodafone's wisdom in selling Orange to France Telecom -- prior to 2000, Orange UK was known for great deals, no hidden charges, customer-friendliness (first one-second billing in the world, they only charged roamers their standard rate plus 15 percent, etc.), and were a fearsome competitor. Since FT took over, it seems the practices of Orange France are the rule -- credit cancellation, short expiration, and now blocking calls to competitors but still charging for them.)

Originally Posted by Przemolog

I think you tried it in the Orange coverage, not in roaming?

Yes, here in Otwock. The 3 PLN would be gone in an instant in roaming.

But really, in (Germany, the UK, the USA, Australia, etc.) you can place international calls for a couple of cents a minute using cards, call-by-call, etc. Why it has to cost, at a minimum, 10 times as much in Poland is something that is a bit hard to explain without assuming collusion with (or intimidation of) competitors on the part of TPSA. Sigh.

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Heyah to Era portability was announced a few weeks ago, but it was cancelled.

Do you have a link for this? My wife has an Era contract (601, since the early days!) but would probably be better off with Heyah (like me). That's pretty annoying, but no surprise (see above).

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by Motel75

Yes, silly me, I had a closer took at the terms and conditions, and of course Orange are a bunch of liars. Nothing new there.

Disregarding the fact the bonus is for on-net connections only, the starter should be named "63 for 55" or so . BTW, I suppose that the name of the "13 for 5" starter may violate the lastest version of the fair competition law (effective Dec 07) which e.g. forbids advertising "unlimited calls" with 2000 minutes month limit. However, I have no time to ivestigate that issue .

In fact, there used to be some "get more than you paid" starters in Idea/Orange. There were "12 for 10" POP starters and, really good ones, a great sale of "Jedna Idea na Kartę" starters in summer 2005 (before rebranding to Orange): "25 for 12.50".

Originally Posted by Motel75

However, this was the card I was forced to buy, because the local store didn't have any Orange Go starter kits.

If you needed just Orange Go, you could "change the brand" from POP. In Orange, you can fchange from one prepaid brand to another (POP, Go, Music, Free na kartę) at the cost of on-net SMS, no matter what SIM you have.

Originally Posted by Motel75

And, it seems, Orange charged me for the calls that they blocked.

Did you hear a message about non-existing number and you were charged anyway???

Originally Posted by Motel75

But really, in (Germany, the UK, the USA, Australia, etc.) you can place international calls for a couple of cents a minute using cards, call-by-call, etc. Why it has to cost, at a minimum, 10 times as much in Poland is something that is a bit hard to explain without assuming collusion with (or intimidation of) competitors on the part of TPSA. Sigh.

Well, let's make things clear.

By "cards" you probably mean calling cards which in Poland are usually named "Tele-something" ? What is the problem about them? Eg. I've just checked Telepin (the calling card, not the SIM, http://www.telepin.pl/Cennik.pdf) and, as you can see, international calls via 0800 number cost from 0.26 PLN (about 0.07 EUR, perhaps not very cheap but not that horrible either). Calls to mobile phones in CPP countries are more expensive but obviously they have to.

"Call-by-call" is AFAIK a German name for we call in Poland "prefiks" (officially "NDS") and it's a 10xx number added behind the leading 0 in national numbers or 010xx preceding the 00 in international numbers. Yes, that's worse because 10xx access number work on TP lines only and, what is the most importtant, using them requires signing an additional contract . The rates also higher (the best ones I found are 0.35 PLN/min - 0.12 EUR) but it isn't quite bad anyway....

Perhaps, if you need a coverage in Otwock and the Warsaw area, you should try Sferia - a "landline" CDMA 800 operator and its prepaid Nomadic na kartę.
International rates start from 0.22 PLN/min with 1/1 debiting.

http://www.sferia.pl/index.php?action=page&cid=760
http://www.sferia.pl/files/12148980916584933264.pdf
http://www.fkn.pl/2,0,1456064,1,1,artykul.html

Originally Posted by Motel75

Do you have a link for this? My wife has an Era contract (601, since the early days!) but would probably be better off with Heyah (like me). That's pretty annoying, but no surprise (see above).

601 is the earliest Plus prefix. Do you mean 602?

The links are:
http://www.telepolis.pl/news.php?id=11660 and
http://www.telepolis.pl/news.php?id=11745.

However, it was to be Heyah to Era, not vice versa what you need.

[Motel75]

And do the major operators make the prefixes for regular prepaid services (Tak Tak, Go, Simplus, as well as Heyah, Pop, Sami Swoi, iPlus SIMdata, and 36.6) different from those from postpaid contracts? Heyah, for example, seems to be 884, 886, 888, and 889; are these exclusive to Heyah?

[ms93]

Only Heyah (787, 788, 880, 886, 888, 889) and Sami Swoi (885, 887) have exclusive prefixes. Rest of prepaids and postpaids in one network have same prefixes (eg. Plus and Simplus have same prefixes).

EDIT:
Here you have all polish prefixes: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefiksy_GSM
As I see there 36,6 also have own prefix (725, here marked as 36i6)

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by ms93

Only Heyah (787, 788, 880, 886, 888, 889) and Sami Swoi (885, 887) have exclusive prefixes. Rest of prepaids and postpaids in one network have same prefixes (eg. Plus and Simplus have same prefixes).

EDIT:
Here you have all polish prefixes: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefiksy_GSM
As I see there 36,6 also have own prefix (725, here marked as 36i6)

Yes, that's right. But in the past there were some (temporary) numbering differences between postpaids and prepaids. AFAIR POP used to be 5018, 5019, 5028, 5029. Simplus in the beginning was 603 only whereas postpaid was 601 only.

Some more remarks about MVNO prefixes. As of today, the general rule is that most MVNOs use the numbers "passed" to them by their hosting operators. These "number transfers" are not shown in the numbering allocation established by UKE (the regulator). The MNI prefix is a special case, however. 786(0-4) is shown in the MNO table, not MVNO one, with remark "MVNO".

Details of the official allocation are shown here:
http://www.bip.uke.gov.pl/bipurtip/i...t=11&page=text
(Tables T2 for MNOs and T9 for MVNOs, under links there are Excel files)

[Motel75]

Doh, I should have thought about looking in pl.wikipedia! Thanks!

While I'm on the subject, is there a most "prestigious" prefix, such as one of the original Plus or Era ones from 1996, such as 601 or 603? (I mean something like the German prefix 0172, the only one issued by Mannesmann/Vodafone in the early years and is now only rarely issued; SIMs with this prefix are traded at a significant premium on eBay.)