Virgin Mobile UK Now Roams in the US

[Motel75]

Originally Posted by MATHA531

...as noted the value of roaming in the US is absolutely not to make calls but to be able to keep it alive cheaply...

Then there is what the French providers pull and this is one place perhaps the eu could do some good...

Of course, it must be added, that for Americans travelling to the UK, Virgin Mobile is far from the bargain it used to be...

Agree with everything said. I suspect the extreme roaming costs in the US are just part of the insular phone-company "gotcha" mentality and a failure to notice what a revenue source roaming is elsewhere. (For example, on all the major landline carriers, you will pay $4 a minute to call Europe -- you must order a monthly "package" to drop this down to 10-20 cents, which is itself not particularly cheap. I discovered this at my sister's house after checking my German voicemail several times ended up costing me $140!)

France suffers from having a market without a great deal of competition and a big dominant incumbent (France Telecom/Orange) that can dictate terms to newcomers, and weak competition from "cash cows" (SFR, Bouyges) belonging to national conglomerates that aren't otherwise telecommunications heavyweights, who clearly have no interest in rocking the boat (despite --or perhaps causing -- France being the only mobile market in Western Europe that still has a lot of potential growth, with relatively low penetration and use of value-added services, especially SMS). It's always amazing to me how competitive (and thus so much better from the consumer perspective) the German market is nowadays, when it was in much the same position as France's a decade ago.

As for Virgin, I don't know exactly why they instituted the 10p minimum; I don't think it was due to rising costs from using T-Mobile as their base network. I imagine it has more to do with Virgin a) introducing postpaid accounts and thus wanting to make its prepaid offer seem less attractive and b) becoming part of what is essentially an expanded NTL, a much less "cool" company than VM was when it launched. I find it surprising that, far from continuing to innovate, Virgin has left its price list exactly the same as it was when it launched (aside from the minimum charge of first 5p in 2004 and now 10p and the new restrictions on which calls count toward the first 5 minutes of each day, which is now only standard landlines and other VM numbers). They could have offset this with lower calls to other networks or something. As it is, I generally recommend T-Mobile now instead (as you can place international calls for 3p using a dialthrough service).

[MATHA531]

Motel 75...

Didn't take a court order in Germany to get the prepaids off of stealing away people's credit the same way the French do and going to a fixed period, if any, of expiration?

[Malkav]

Virgin has always roamed outside the UK its just the tariff/ payment type that either allowed it or barred it!

PAYG up until recently didnt (as far as i know) allow you to roam, but only with a tri or quad band handset but on standard payg the costs where quite large! i have yet to use my virgin payg or virgin pay monthly abroad (well my payg i took to france not long after virgin mobile launched and at the time they didnt offer roaming!) so i cant really comment on roaming partners or coverage! nor can i comment on costs!

[Motel75]

Originally Posted by MATHA531

Motel 75...

Didn't take a court order in Germany to get the prepaids off of stealing away people's credit the same way the French do and going to a fixed period, if any, of expiration?

Yes and no. It's a bit of a long story, but until about four years ago, all three networks (and from late 1998, with the addition of Viag Intercom, now O2) all four had prices and policies that were almost identical. Each company had one prepaid offer, later adding a couple of tariff choices, before the MVNOs arrived and changed things. However, expiration wasn't that bad. Vodafone (and Mannesmann/D2 privat before it) CallYa prepaids cost essentially 40 DM, later €20 per year to keep going. They initially had 15 months validity to begin with, and as I remember (perhaps incorrectly) this could be extended to two years via topping up (with the extension added to the existing validity), but this was later reduced to 15 months maximum. Of course, when time was up, whatever credit was on there was gone if you didn't top up, and this is what the court decision changed.

Although the expiration was OK, and you could periodically get a starter packet with phone for what was then a highly subsidized price (In 2001, for example, a basic Sagem with Vodafone card for 49 DM, or 25 €, with 15 DM credit), the per-minute rates could be quite high; on the typical variable-rate prepaid, about 80 cents for calling a landline during the day and 70 cents for calling other mobile networks off-peak, although the 7 cent weekend landline calls were a good consolation prize). In short, the offer was still better than what is available now in France, with its extortionate rates and extremely short expiration dates after which all credit is lost.

BTW, the €2 per minute charge that many German prepaids charge for international calls dates from this time: all prepaids charged DM 3.99 for all destinations (remember that until 1998, Deutsche Telekom had an expensive monopoly on landlines; calling the US was something like DM 2.50 a minute, or $1.50, billed in fixed 23-pfennig impulse units that were valid for a shorter duration, depending on the distance of the target country (5.33 seconds to Argentina, for example). While landline calling prices plummeted in 1998, this international rate remained unchanged on mobiles, and was even converted into the euro equivalent (€1.84) in 2002 -- or even rounded up to 1.99.

However, in the last few three years there have been many new MVNOs, starting with Simyo, and the majors have tried to compete. Some of the new MVNOs, and offers such as the low-price Vodafone CallYa Compact, offered low prices but poor expiration policies. CallYa Compact originally expired after 92 days without topping up, and maximum topup validity was 92 days, no matter how much you added (officially minimum 15 €). Having switched to Vf Compact from 10 years on a contract, and with my expiration date initially 15 months in the future, I received an SMS from Voda in early summer 2006 telling me that my account was now valid only till August -- didn't make me happy... However, it turned out there was a loophole -- you could restart the 92 days by sending a smaller amount via bank transfer...)Smobil, another Vodafone-in-disguise offer, offered max. 180 days after the biggest top-up. (OTOH, MVNOs with more independence, such as Aldi Talk, offered very generous expiration policies, initially one year, max. two years).

In the end, the court ruling changed this, and now the topup validity issue is largely moot, though some providers such as Talkline, still maintain them (even the 92-day limit on Vf Compact), but they return the money to your bank account at the end if requested. Not a good way to retain customers, in my view.

Virgin has always roamed outside the UK its just the tariff/ payment type that either allowed it or barred it!

I'm not sure this is true. I've been with Virgin since 2002 and for the first year my phone did not roam anywhere. I believe they added this in 2003 -- remember, until less than two years ago, Virgin was prepaid-only, so there were no contract customers with more features. There are just direct debit customers, who get lower roaming rates, and (it is claimed) more roaming countries, though even this might not be true, hence this thread.