Maxroam (aka Roam4Free V2) - Page 7

andy · 02-10-2007, 11:48

I think it will be more popular in America, where people are used to the idea that calling mobiles is the same cost as landlines. Other places, where people have contract mobiles with inclusive minutes, it doesn't matter as much that they call a mobile.

The advantage of Maxroam and its similar predecessors is having the possibility to add landlines in the places you visit, if you'll expect loads of incoming calls from there. Frequent or long stay visitors or groups will get a local SIM though, so that will be the dilemma, how much use is expected.

But without getting too complicated and subscribing to loads of DIDs, pbxes etc, there are possibilities like Sipbroker/Voxalot, which means people can set up one VoIP call forward to themselves, then others can reach them via local landlines in 25 countries, eg in France 01(Paris)p*010xxxxxx like a simple callthrough (similar in effect to CBW pin2dest), and costing me a few cents a minute.

That's why I think that Maxroam isn't yet what it suggests, a disruptive approach that has broken through to achieving local calls at local rate; it's still roaming at roaming rates.

This week a product has launched in the UK with inclusive minutes packages for international calls. If that becomes popular and spreads, then perhaps ringing visitors roaming in one's own country or friends on a foreign SIM on their holidays won't be a big deal. And the minutes are free! Don't throw away the Liechtenstein SIM.

petkow · 02-10-2007, 11:50

Congrats on winning the iPhone ygeffens!

ygeffens · 02-10-2007, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy

I think it will be more popular in America, where people are used to the idea that calling mobiles is the same cost as landlines. Other places, where people have contract mobiles with inclusive minutes, it doesn't matter as much that they call a mobile.

So it was a good idea to launch it there. I bet 2 out 3 cards were sold to the USA. Correct me if I'm wrong Sean. But that's not wrong, is it? We (I speak for myself, and maybe for the majority of the people here) live in Europe, and travel most of the time within Europe. So, we look at these products from a EU-view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy

But without getting too complicated and subscribing to loads of DIDs, pbxes etc, there are possibilities like Sipbroker/Voxalot, which means people can set up one VoIP call forward to themselves, then others can reach them via local landlines in 25 countries, eg in France 01(Paris)p*010xxxxxx like a simple callthrough (similar in effect to CBW pin2dest), and costing me a few cents a minute.

That way your call travels (at least) 2 times over the internet. With Murphy looking around the corner all the time, I prefer a more reliable sollution. I agree when this is all for pleasure/private use. The world will not fall apart when you can't be reached by the people that stayed at home when you're on a holliday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy

That's why I think that Maxroam isn't yet what it suggests, a disruptive approach that has broken through to achieving local calls at local rate; it's still roaming at roaming rates.

_yet_, indeed, you might be right there, but I always was told to learn to walk, then to run. So, what MAXroam is doing is not that stupid.
I understand that you are maybe disappointed because they are not already delivering what you hoped they would be. I also was hoping for eg. Data, but we'll have to wait another 6 months for that (see the link I posted to Markus Göbel's blog, a few messages up).

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy

This week a product has launched in the UK with inclusive minutes packages for international calls. If that becomes popular and spreads, then perhaps ringing visitors roaming in one's own country or friends on a foreign SIM on their holidays won't be a big deal. And the minutes are free! Don't throw away the Liechtenstein SIM.

THAT is a problem for MAXroam and similar services. There big operators just have to think of something and it's almost a working product, simply because they have a platform that is capable of doing almost anything, they just have to be motivated by someone (eg. MAXroam), and they launche that new product. So, maybe al the 'small' operators are paving the way for the big ones?
I indeed will not throw away my UM-card, but probable that country will not be included in many bundles, they probably start with all EU-countries, and Liechtenstein isn't one of them.

bbob · 02-10-2007, 12:22

new rates, higher rates that make it even less attractive.

I agree setting out your own system is more complicated and more errors are possible. On the other side the price difference between the do it yourself solution and the rates maxroam is offering now are to big !!!

As for the quality. When they as ygeffens said have direct sim without number. Still they will have incoming did numbers through the internet connect to their system, that they would have to connect to the sim on whichever network.
In case of say a USA did number the call goes through the interent fro the USA to their server, than their server connect to the server of the sim providers that routes the call to the network on which the sim is logged in.
I don't really see a difference here with the pbxes solution.
USA DID connects to pbxes sever, pbxes calls the number and gets connected.

As said before nice service but the rates are just to high !!

ygeffens · 02-10-2007, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by petkow

Congrats on winning the iPhone ygeffens!

Thanks

I will NOT upgrade my phone
I WILL let you know what cards that are accepted by this phone.

ygeffens · 02-10-2007, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbob

As for the quality. When they as ygeffens said have direct sim without number. Still they will have incoming did numbers through the internet connect to their system, that they would have to connect to the sim on whichever network.
In case of say a USA did number the call goes through the interent fro the USA to their server, than their server connect to the server of the sim providers that routes the call to the network on which the sim is logged in.
I don't really see a difference here with the pbxes solution.
USA DID connects to pbxes sever, pbxes calls the number and gets connected.

MAXroam
Call USA DID -> internet (from USA LEX to MAXroam-servers) -> SIM

PBXes
Call USA DID -> internet (from USA LEX to pbxes.org) -> use VSP (over internet) to forward to UK Cellphone number (eg UM+) = SIM

MAXroam's call travels over the internet once, the other example twice. Right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

PBXes has a different setup. It has a failover system, but then it becomes very slow. When something goes wrong with the uplink that MAXroam is using their ISP will automatically switch to another route, without changing anything in the configuration of the servers. That way the chance that a DID becomes unavailable is rather small, and the speed of the server is not affected (unlike what happens with PBXes because all users are transferred from one server to another).

Anyway. Every system has it's pro's and it's con's.
Professionally, I'll use MAXroam, for other things I might use PBXes (or it's equivalents).
I'm saying this without knowing MAXroams call quality, so actually I'm talking about the setup, not the specific service (MAXroam in this example).

bbob · 02-10-2007, 16:40

Sounds nice direct to maxroam servers and than to sim.

If this is the case than maxroam must have the status of a network provider like manx telecom, jersey telecom or any other cellphone operator. The situation we see now with the manx card for example is that manx telecom is the network provider and callkey handles everything.

If what you are saying is right than maxroam must be a true provider having their own network directly connected to the gsm phone network.

I don't think that this is the case as you just don't become a cellphone provider like that.

Knowing this the signal still has to travel from their servers to the server of the provider. In this case maxroam must be something like callkey.

I agree that their route should be a bit shorter and safer.

But again I keep telling this over and over again, their rates are just to high. Why would a lesser service like the pbx route be cheaper than a directer route maxroam says having. With cheaper it's a lot cheaper not just a few eurocents.

ygeffens · 02-10-2007, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbob

But again I keep telling this over and over again, their rates are just to high. Why would a lesser service like the pbx route be cheaper than a directer route maxroam says having. With cheaper it's a lot cheaper not just a few eurocents.

Right, at the moment, they may not have the best rates, but I think that changing the rates will be something they will handle first, then they will eventually introduce new features. I'm very curious what their data-offer will be. Calling without a callback-system sounds nice. With some cards I'm having a problem receiving the callback, something that can be avoided when elimination the callback.

Let's wait and see. I think some people are to negative for a company that just has started. Agreed, it would be more 'pro' to come up with a finished product, but then again UM created UM+. UM was there for a long time, and they too had difficulties starting up (but they had their rates correct from day one

).

Grampa · 02-10-2007, 19:11

I can forgive a simple mistake on the rate sheet, but this is getting ridiculous. The rates get more confusing (and higher) with each iteration.

I originally was attracted to this card because it appeared somewhat better than the next best card for my particular needs. I have an upcoming trip to France, so I wanted reasonable rates for calls to and from the phone within France and between France and the USA. I also wanted reasonable rates for the handful of other countries I'm likely to travel to over the next year so that I can actually use the minutes I purchase.

The UM+ card offered 29 eurocents to most destinations, more to mobile phones, plus a 25 eurocent connection fee. Incoming is free, but my callers would pay quite a bit, and my own voip carrier charges about 22 eurocents. Rates from countries other than Europe are only fair, with many countries in Central and South America unavailable altogether.

The Maxroam card appeared to offer 30 eurocents to ALL destinations, including mobile phones, with no connection fee. Incoming is not free, but I could get an incoming number with my own area code, and either give out that number or forward from my landline. Rates from countries I'm likely to visit over the next year are generally better than those from UM.

Then came this morning's rate sheet. Assuming it's gone back to Euros (they've dropped the reference to USD$), rates from France to the USA have gone from 30 to 38 eurocents; rates are now higher to other destinations and to mobile phones. Rates from the UK and other European countries are higher still. Plus it's impossible to determine the rate WITHIN a country. Enter the same country in the "roaming in" and "calling to" fields, and you get incomprehensible results: calls to "local" landline and cellular phones are priced differently from "outgoing" calls to landline and cellular phones in the same country.

I'm not trying to pick nits here. But I'm also not that interested in what this service will be like six months or a year from now. I'm buying a SIM card, not making a long term investment in the company. And right now, there is no way to tell how this card will work for me compared to the competition.

bbob · 03-10-2007, 08:41

Grampa,

You are right and this is the problem with most roaming free card. Everything works fine for some month's and than something happend.

UM lichtensteinnumber was very good untill all carriers increased the rates calling to lichtenstein mobile to very unattractive rates.
UM+ is nice and now a few month's later voicemail seems to come online.
IOM cards were ok but the system is offline now.
Maxroam is a lot of marketing and does not seem very seriously by changing their rates several times in almost 1 week. Also the don't give to much background information on their system so how long will it work ?

My only conclusion is to setup your own system and yes it is more complicated but whenever 1 providers fials you just switch to another one.
You have your own did number and forward id the the provider you want. The cost for doing this forward are only 10 cents. So in every romaing free country calls are forwarded for just 10 cents, which is a lot lower than what other companies are offering. This was all discussed in this thread and some feel that it is to complicated and lesser quality and maxroam is better. Sure maxroam for now is just marketing and it looks like dialy rates chaninging and these rates are 2-4 times higher compared to a do it yourself system.

	(#61)
andy (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Prophet Posts: 2,128 Join Date: 10 Dec 2004 Country:	02-10-2007, 11:48 I think it will be more popular in America, where people are used to the idea that calling mobiles is the same cost as landlines. Other places, where people have contract mobiles with inclusive minutes, it doesn't matter as much that they call a mobile. The advantage of Maxroam and its similar predecessors is having the possibility to add landlines in the places you visit, if you'll expect loads of incoming calls from there. Frequent or long stay visitors or groups will get a local SIM though, so that will be the dilemma, how much use is expected. But without getting too complicated and subscribing to loads of DIDs, pbxes etc, there are possibilities like Sipbroker/Voxalot, which means people can set up one VoIP call forward to themselves, then others can reach them via local landlines in 25 countries, eg in France 01(Paris)p*010xxxxxx like a simple callthrough (similar in effect to CBW pin2dest), and costing me a few cents a minute. That's why I think that Maxroam isn't yet what it suggests, a disruptive approach that has broken through to achieving local calls at local rate; it's still roaming at roaming rates. This week a product has launched in the UK with inclusive minutes packages for international calls. If that becomes popular and spreads, then perhaps ringing visitors roaming in one's own country or friends on a foreign SIM on their holidays won't be a big deal. And the minutes are free! Don't throw away the Liechtenstein SIM.

	(#62)
petkow (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 696 Join Date: 01 Aug 2006 Location: Madrid Country:	02-10-2007, 11:50 Congrats on winning the iPhone ygeffens!

	(#64)
bbob (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Expert Posts: 499 Join Date: 20 Feb 2007 Country:	02-10-2007, 12:22 new rates, higher rates that make it even less attractive. I agree setting out your own system is more complicated and more errors are possible. On the other side the price difference between the do it yourself solution and the rates maxroam is offering now are to big !!! As for the quality. When they as ygeffens said have direct sim without number. Still they will have incoming did numbers through the internet connect to their system, that they would have to connect to the sim on whichever network. In case of say a USA did number the call goes through the interent fro the USA to their server, than their server connect to the server of the sim providers that routes the call to the network on which the sim is logged in. I don't really see a difference here with the pbxes solution. USA DID connects to pbxes sever, pbxes calls the number and gets connected. As said before nice service but the rates are just to high !!

	(#67)
bbob (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Expert Posts: 499 Join Date: 20 Feb 2007 Country:	02-10-2007, 16:40 Sounds nice direct to maxroam servers and than to sim. If this is the case than maxroam must have the status of a network provider like manx telecom, jersey telecom or any other cellphone operator. The situation we see now with the manx card for example is that manx telecom is the network provider and callkey handles everything. If what you are saying is right than maxroam must be a true provider having their own network directly connected to the gsm phone network. I don't think that this is the case as you just don't become a cellphone provider like that. Knowing this the signal still has to travel from their servers to the server of the provider. In this case maxroam must be something like callkey. I agree that their route should be a bit shorter and safer. But again I keep telling this over and over again, their rates are just to high. Why would a lesser service like the pbx route be cheaper than a directer route maxroam says having. With cheaper it's a lot cheaper not just a few eurocents.

	(#69)
Grampa (Offline) Member Advanced Member Posts: 97 Join Date: 01 Oct 2007 Country:	02-10-2007, 19:11 I can forgive a simple mistake on the rate sheet, but this is getting ridiculous. The rates get more confusing (and higher) with each iteration. I originally was attracted to this card because it appeared somewhat better than the next best card for my particular needs. I have an upcoming trip to France, so I wanted reasonable rates for calls to and from the phone within France and between France and the USA. I also wanted reasonable rates for the handful of other countries I'm likely to travel to over the next year so that I can actually use the minutes I purchase. The UM+ card offered 29 eurocents to most destinations, more to mobile phones, plus a 25 eurocent connection fee. Incoming is free, but my callers would pay quite a bit, and my own voip carrier charges about 22 eurocents. Rates from countries other than Europe are only fair, with many countries in Central and South America unavailable altogether. The Maxroam card appeared to offer 30 eurocents to ALL destinations, including mobile phones, with no connection fee. Incoming is not free, but I could get an incoming number with my own area code, and either give out that number or forward from my landline. Rates from countries I'm likely to visit over the next year are generally better than those from UM. Then came this morning's rate sheet. Assuming it's gone back to Euros (they've dropped the reference to USD$), rates from France to the USA have gone from 30 to 38 eurocents; rates are now higher to other destinations and to mobile phones. Rates from the UK and other European countries are higher still. Plus it's impossible to determine the rate WITHIN a country. Enter the same country in the "roaming in" and "calling to" fields, and you get incomprehensible results: calls to "local" landline and cellular phones are priced differently from "outgoing" calls to landline and cellular phones in the same country. I'm not trying to pick nits here. But I'm also not that interested in what this service will be like six months or a year from now. I'm buying a SIM card, not making a long term investment in the company. And right now, there is no way to tell how this card will work for me compared to the competition.

	(#70)
bbob (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Expert Posts: 499 Join Date: 20 Feb 2007 Country:	03-10-2007, 08:41 Grampa, You are right and this is the problem with most roaming free card. Everything works fine for some month's and than something happend. UM lichtensteinnumber was very good untill all carriers increased the rates calling to lichtenstein mobile to very unattractive rates. UM+ is nice and now a few month's later voicemail seems to come online. IOM cards were ok but the system is offline now. Maxroam is a lot of marketing and does not seem very seriously by changing their rates several times in almost 1 week. Also the don't give to much background information on their system so how long will it work ? My only conclusion is to setup your own system and yes it is more complicated but whenever 1 providers fials you just switch to another one. You have your own did number and forward id the the provider you want. The cost for doing this forward are only 10 cents. So in every romaing free country calls are forwarded for just 10 cents, which is a lot lower than what other companies are offering. This was all discussed in this thread and some feel that it is to complicated and lesser quality and maxroam is better. Sure maxroam for now is just marketing and it looks like dialy rates chaninging and these rates are 2-4 times higher compared to a do it yourself system.