Greece GPRS?

[AndreA]

Originally Posted by gmmour

It is also amazing that 2G GPRS seems to work really faster than dialup with a fixed phone line!

EDGE?

[gmmour]

No, I don't think so... My Sony Ericsson W880i doesn't do EDGE... Probably I was excited just to have internet access down there at the beach and everything seemed so perfect

It seems that dialup service is just crappy at my parents' house! They got ADSL up and running today hurrah! (But I'm not there and they don't bother connecting the modem themselves...)

[tahop]

I sit worth me purchasing an unlocked aircard....I already have a cell phone with an COSMOTE number, so I would have to get a new SIM card to utilize with my laptop. Which way is the best?

[caliston]

I got back from 3 weeks in Greece yesterday... time to relate my experiences:

I already had a TIM SIM - dropped it into my phone (a Nokia 6820) in the airport and up popped 'WIND GR' on the display. Last topped it up in October and it was making calls fine. I had about EUR 5 balance left.

Next, text PLUS to 349. No problems, WIND Plus enabled. I then set up the phone to do WIND WAP as described here, and it worked! AFAICS I've not been charged any more for the use of data.

First thing to note: Bluetooth phones are very handy. GSM signals don't seem to go through reinforced concrete buildings very well, with the result that often in the middle of the building the phone shows <25% signal. This causes GPRS to be slow, break up, or not work at all. In most cases I got 80-100% signal on the balcony on one side of the buildings I was in, so I left the phone on the balcony and connected to it using Bluetooth from inside (up to about 8m away).

Second thing to note: WIND WAP's proxy mangles HTML. That means often pages would come up with XML parsing errors in Firefox. IE was about as bad and Opera was slightly better, but the problem seems to be that the proxy occasionally removes spaces from within HTML tags, causing the browser to complain.

The connection was a bit more flaky than I'm used to with GPRS: even with the phone claiming 100% of signal (in many cases with direct line-of-sight to the base station on the mountain 1.6km above me) I'd have to try several times to connect, or the connection would drop. It might have been slightly more stable in Athens than Kefalonia, but it was pretty similar. From watching the activity lights in Windows it appeared the connection would fail to receive anything and have to retry several times until it arrived.

Third thing to note: my phone does 2.5G, that is it has EDGE but not 3G. The Bluetooth connection claims 460Kbps but that's just to the phone - I got a maximum of about 4Kbytes/s download speed. I didn't find anywhere that did EDGE.

I installed Opera Mini on my phone... quite impressed, given my phone is one of the very early Java phones that can't cope with programs more than 64KB. It didn't seem to run into the proxy mangling problem. It did keep crashing if you view too many pages, but I think that was it running out of memory (other Java apps easily run out of memory too on my phone).

Anyway, I asked about SSH. What I discovered is that the proxy is an HTTP proxy that only accepts CONNECT requests to port 443. You can make it talk SSH, but you'll need an SSH server that runs on port 443 rather than the usual 22. I used PuTTY successfully to connect, here are the settings:

Session:
Hostname mysshserver.example.com
Port 443
Protocol SSH

Connection:
Seconds between keepalives 15

Connection->Proxy:
Proxy type HTTP
Proxy hostname 192.168.200.10
Port 9401
Do DNS lookup at proxy end Yes

The above directs SSH connections through the proxy. The keepalives option is because the proxy has a fairly low timeout - it'll close connections that are idle for more than a few tens of seconds, so the keepalives ensures the SSH session doesn't disappear if you stop typing.

With all this I managed to connect successfully to my SSH server on port 443. Latency was a little slower than I'm used to on GPRS... in other words a bit to slow to type interactively - probably a latency of 1-3s. Given the frequent connection dropouts I experienced, if you SSH into Unix I strongly recommend installing GNU Screen which will preserve what you're doing if the connection drops and you need to reconnect.

Given the mangling HTTP proxy, I also used the SSH session to tunnel HTTP traffic to a web proxy I knew worked:

Connection->SSH->Tunnels:
Source port 1234
Destination port webcache.example.com:8080
Local ticked
then click Add

I set up Firefox to use a proxy of 'localhost' port 1234, which is then forwarded by PuTTY to connect to the webcache on port 8080. This made many websites work, and also gets around the 1MB download limit. Given the limited bandwidth I also ticked:

Connection->SSH:
Enabled compression

Not sure how much difference it made, but I think it helped a bit for HTML. One warning: if the PuTTY session drops and you start a new one, make sure you change the 1234 to something new (perhaps 1235, 1236 and so on) in the tunnel Source port setting (you'll have to delete the old tunnel and add a new one) and in your browser's proxy settings. This is because the old PuTTY will keep listening on port 1234 even for a short while after you kill it, and so the new PuTTY won't be able to listen there. That means web browser connections will appear to work but will never actually receive anything, unless you change to new port numbers. I'd be interested to know if there's a better workaround.

Total traffic: about 70MB
Cost with Virgin GPRS (UK or roaming): £350
Cost with WIND WAP: EUR3.49

I'm going to see if I can find a 3G phone to take with me next time - hopefully that might help the latency problems.

[gmmour]

Hi,
A new Wind F2G (PAYG) SIM card costs 5€ and gives you 5€ of airtime (1€ every month for the five first months provided that you top-up at least once per month).

The XML parsing error (at least in Opera) is prevalent but you just have to click on the "reparse page as HTML" tag and it will work, but it is annoying...

The Wind proxy makes the connection quite slower and latencies longer...
Opera mini is great and doesn't have problems because it first passes and filters the pages you request through Opera's own servers so the pages that arrive on your phone are preformated by Opera and images shrinked in order for them to download fast and easy on your mobile. Some time Opera Mini freaks out but I think that's a problem of the Opera servers, as at the same time the GPRS connection through the laptop works fine...

Bluetooth is the best solution to get good signal.

Finally, Wind has EDGE support installed on all base stations since 2004 but they have never given it to the public for their own unknown reasons, some say they don't have adequate backbone in rural Greece for that... Probably they didn't bother since they offered 3G in cities where they have interest by business users but it would be great for them to offer EDGE everywhere on their GSM footprint!

Cosmote recently announced they covered 80% of their network with 3GSM and they're planning to have a complete network overlay with 3GSM by the end of the year, which means that Cosmote will cover the entire country with 3GSM! Wind and Vodafone GR are not even close to that, covering only cities!!!

[beorma_kate]

Hi

This has been a really useful thread as I'm about to become a liveaboard in Greece and will be living on a boat, firstly in Lefkas (Nidri) then cruising around Greece for a couple of years. I want to be able to access the internet via a laptop, either from the quayside or from my boat which will be moored in harbours or at anchor near to shore.

I know absolutely nothing about using wifi or a mobile to access the internet and I've tried to follow this thread as it all seems to be what I'm looking for. Will the suggestions that you've been making about plugging into a laptop via a mobile and using a WIND pre-pay SIM card work for me?

Any hints/tips massively appreciated.

Can I also ask (though I know this is slightly off topic), would I need a top notch laptop to get decent speeds? I've been told that I need a Centrino processor, preferably at least 2 Ghz in order to get the best from wifi but they are very expensive. Do I really need this?

Many thanks for any help.

Kate

[caliston]

A WIND SIM will probably work OK... if you have a Bluetooth phone you might want to put it up high (on the mast?) to get better signal. I haven't any experience of using data at sea, but voice calls seem to have enough signal on ferry boats most of the way Patras-Kefallonia so it might be feasible. You may have better signal if you moor in a town. If you're in a remote bay it might be best to moor further away from the shore since the transmitters are often on tops of the mountains and you ideally want line-of-sight to the tall mountains. If you're doing this a lot you could buy a second cheap Bluetooth phone and mount it (with a charger cable) on top of the mast all the time.

The speed is pretty much unrelated to your computer. For GPRS in theory a computer made after about 1995 is going to be fast enough. For 3G maybe 1998-9 or so. If you buy a computer today even the cheapest bottom-of-the-line computers should have no trouble.

Centrino is a brand which basically means wifi+low power processor. Low power's handy if you're often going to be using your computer without a mains connection, as you get more battery life. But wifi is wifi: for the net it'll work just the same on a fast computer than a slow one. Especially in Greece where there aren't too many public wifi hotspots, even if you have a wifi connection it'll most likely be running at a tiny fraction of the 54Mbit/s claimed and so your computer speed isn't an issue.

It depends whether you think you'll be working a lot away from a power point, or whether you might be (say) running from the boat batteries/engine all the time. If the latter, any laptop with wireless will do (and even those that don't, it'll cost about £20 to add). If the former, look for a laptop the advertises the most hours on battery (often they quote another figure with an expensive auxiliary battery - ignore that. Don't believe that you'll actually get these figures, but they're a useful comparison). These tend to be more expensive, but if you don't need a fast laptop you could look for an older model reconditioned/secondhand. Fit a new battery if you buy this way, though, as batteries wear out through use.

If you are running from boat power rather than mains power, it might still be worth looking for a low power laptop as I don't know how big your boat will be - you don't want to drain the batteries for navigation lights!

[gmmour]

Here's an update on the new WIND GR tarrifs for its mobile broadband (HSPA 3,6 Mbps) offer. The product is calles WIND ADSM (a marketing name to show that the prices are comparable to fixed ADSL)...

The new prices for postpaid subscriptions are:

Wind offer monthly charge
ΑDSM Basic (1 MB) 3,5 €
ADSM 300 MB 17 €
ADSM 5 GB 32 €
ADSM Non-Stop (30 GB) 49 €
Student pack* (33 GB) 30 € 3 GΒ from 08:00 to 20:00, 30 GB from 20:00 to 08:00

*The WIND student pack is offered to greek university students, it offers interconnection with the Hellenic Academic Network and provides an IP address from inside the student's university LAN for free access to international online libraries that have agreements with the student's university and can only be accessed from a valid university IP. Since it is funded from the Ministry of Education applications must be first filled online through the greek student internet portal www.diodos.edu.gr and then be printed and brought to a WIND store for product purchase. A one-year contract and free HSPA modem (USB, PCMCIA or PCI-Express) must be purchased with the student plan.

A user can either subscribe to these programs with an unlimited time contract (can be cancelled at any time after the first month), or sign a one-year contract and get an HSPA modem for free (either a 3.6Mbps Huawei E220 USB modem, a 1.8Mbps PCMCIA card or a 3.6Mbps PCI-Express card). A wireless WiFi HSPA router (1.8Mbps) is available with a subsidized price for one-year contracts.
http://www.wind.com.gr/pages.fds?langID=2&pageID=1442

There are also two prepaid packs available to WIND F2G prepaid subscribers:
ADSM Non-stop 2 which offers 2 days unlimited access for 10 Euro
and ADSM Non-stop 7 which offers 7 days unlimited access for 30 Euro
(There is a cap of 1GB per day for ADSM Non-stop 2 and 7)
These prepaid offers can be activated on any F2G prepaid SIM by sending an SMS with the words "NS 2" or "NS 7" to 3553 and having 10 or 30 Euro respectively on your account balance.
http://www.wind.com.gr/pages.fds?pageID=1443&langID=2


PS: The Wind plus non-stop offer described in this forum with unlimited HSPA access and a 1MB per downloaded file limitation is still available for 3,49 Euro per month and remains the best offer in the greek market!

Here are the offers of vodafone.gr and cosmote.gr respecitvely. (Cosmote covers almost all of Greece with 3GSM and most cities with HSPA, Vodafone covers most of the cities with HSPA while Wind also covers most of the greek cities and has HSPA coverage enabled all over its 3G network). Only wind offers an updated map with its 3G coverage on www.wind.com.gr
All three offer HSPA @ 3.6 Mbps. Cosmote has announced that they will be upgrading to 7.2Mbps HSDPA and HSUPA for incresed upload speeds beginning from big cities soon. Vodafone and Wind are expected to follow. The Huawei E220 USB HSPA modems offered by all three are said to be able to be upgraded to support download speeds up to 7.2Mbps and increased upload speeds with HSUPA with a simple firmware update so if you go for a free modem, get the USB one which is future-proof.

Vodafone offer monthly charge
VMC 1 MB 6 €
VMC 25 MB 19 €
VMC 80 MB 29 €
VMC 5 GB 39€ student*: 29 Euro
VMC 20 GB 99 €

*The Vodafone Student VMC is the same product as VMC 5GB. It does not offer an academic IP address and can be directly purchased at any vodafone shop with a valid student ID card (no need for application through the www.diodos.edu.gr student internet portal)

Cosmote offer monthly charge /monthly charge for Cosmote postpaid subscribers*
CDP Basic (1 MB) 3,5 €
CDP 200 MB 15 € /13€
CDP 5 GB 34,5 € /29,5 €
CDP 20 GB 60 € /50€

*To benefit of the reduced price the user must also have an active postpaid voice subscription with cosmote.
These reduced price data products for existing Cosmote voice customers are offered either on a stand-alone SIM (with optional free modem with one-year contract) or on the existing subscriber's SIM (for his voice postpaid subscription) without subsidized HSPA modem (ideal for those who want to tether their laptop to their HSPA phone). In any case, customers will receive their data plan charge on their existing cosmote bill.

All companies offer either an unlimited time contract or a one-year contract with free HSPA modem, all three of them offer a selection between USB, PCMCIA or PCI-Express modems.

The Vodafone and Wind products are offered only on a separate SIM and cannot be combined on the existing voice postpaid SIM.

For visitors in Greece the Wind prepaid packs for 2 or 7 days and the unlimited time contracts from all three providers for visits of one month or more are coming to complement the existing unbeatable offer of wind plus non-stop described on this thread! Non-EU citizens might have problems to sign an (unlimited or one-year) contract though and wind plus non-stop and the two prepaid WIND ADSM packs might be the only available solution for them.

Have fun in Greece and don't forget to bring your laptops and HSPA phones or modems! The competition has brought prices amazingly down in the past few months! Vodafone is expected to lower its prices after the Wind ADSM products have brough 30GB down to 50 Euro and 5GB down to 32 Euro!

[DaveRo]

Is anyone using, or know somebody who is using, Wind plus non-stop with a Nokia N810 (or N800) internet tablet?

This is a Linux (Maemo) based tablet (not a phone) with a Mozilla Gecko browser called MicroB. There might be two problems using this:
- there doesn't appear to be any way of manually setting an http proxy
- the html-mangling, mentioned in this thread, and MicroB

For the proxy, it may not be a problem. The N810 connects via bluetooth to my N70 phone. I'm not sure whether this is 'tethering' or not - the 2 Nokias may just set the proxy automatically - the N810 supports PAC.

So before I start interrogating the Nokia tablet forums, or hacking into the Linux configs, I thought I'd just ask if anyone is already using and N800 or an N810 and whether it works with Wind non-stop.

[DaveRo]

Thanks. I've since found the proxy settings, so that's one of the two potential problems solved. As for the http-mangling, I'll have to wait and see.

The Nokia N810 is a very nice gadget, but I've yet to use it with the phone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N810