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Kurgan (Offline)
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Default 23-08-2005, 09:05

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Originally Posted by Przemolog
TIM Costa Crocere - incoming 14,68 PLN + rate Poland-Italy, outgoing 16,88 PLN, SMS 1,41 PLN.
Well. I have just read TIM's web site, and found that they clearly state that their customers pay more (2 Euro/min for both incoming and outgoing calls) than the normal TIM home rate, but the site does not state anything about non-TIM customers.

It's quite obvious that TIM does not want customers from other italian networks, because they want people to buy a TIM sim (in Italy, netwrok operators are fighting each other to get largest number of customers, taking them away from the others), so they'll never offer a service to other italian networks customers, even with high prices.

What is less obvious is why do Polish operators have special (high) tariffs for TIM's GSM on ship service, while it seems that other (non Italian) operators don't, and make customers pay the normal roaming fee as if they where roaming on TIM in Italy.

I suppose that this means that there is a way for operators to distinguish between calls made roaming on "normal" GSM service offered by TIM and the "special" on ship service, and as the service will become more popular, and more ships will offer it, more operators will start billing higher rates for the service like Polish operators do. I don't think Riiing will keep the fees low as they are now. Maybe they'll introduce a new "zone", just for on-ship roaming, with prices so high that it'll be better to buy a SAT phone.



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Przemolog (Offline)
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Default 23-08-2005, 22:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan

(...)
It's quite obvious that TIM does not want customers from other italian networks, because they want people to buy a TIM sim (in Italy, netwrok operators are fighting each other to get largest number of customers, taking them away from the others), so they'll never offer a service to other italian networks customers, even with high prices.
Is there no additional reason - forbidden national roaming? After all I think that "GSM on Ships" service is so special that TIM could "let in" other Italian networks....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
What is less obvious is why do Polish operators have special (high) tariffs for TIM's GSM on ship service, while it seems that other (non Italian) operators don't, and make customers pay the normal roaming fee as if they where roaming on TIM in Italy.

I suppose that this means that there is a way for operators to distinguish between calls made roaming on "normal" GSM service offered by TIM and the "special" on ship service, and as the service will become more popular, and more ships will offer it, more operators will start billing higher rates for the service like Polish operators do.
Once again, I'm not 100% sure that Polish operators really charge so rates on ships, I only quote what they display on their websites. But, disregarding the fact that the rates quoted by me are really sick, I think that they should be higher than those for "land GSM" and I'm still very surprised why non-Polish roaming partners of "GSM on Ships" services don't charge higher that kind of roaming....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
I don't think Riiing will keep the fees low as they are now. Maybe they'll introduce a new "zone", just for on-ship roaming, with prices so high that it'll be better to buy a SAT phone.
Hmm, in many cases it's cheaper use to a sat phone instead of roaming. But even if sat phones were as cheap as standard GSM phones with similar features are, they have one important disadvantage - they work only outdoor. That's why IMHO "GSM on Ships" services really make sense...
   
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Kurgan (Offline)
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Default 24-08-2005, 10:06

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Is there no additional reason - forbidden national roaming? After all I think that "GSM on Ships" service is so special that TIM could "let in" other Italian networks....
Maybe it souds like a strange behaviour to you, but here in Italy operators just want to get new customers, and want other operators to lose them. So they offer incredible (or at least they seem to be so) offers, like "600 euros free if you make a number portability to Wind" or "9000 euros free if you make a number poratability to 3 ITA". In such a sick market, TIM wants people to port their number to TIM, and in fact it offers NP service directly on board Costa ships!


Quote:
Once again, I'm not 100% sure that Polish operators really charge so rates on ships, I only quote what they display on their websites. But, disregarding the fact that the rates quoted by me are really sick, I think that they should be higher than those for "land GSM" and I'm still very surprised why non-Polish roaming partners of "GSM on Ships" services don't charge higher that kind of roaming....
To be honest, TIM offers quite a reasonable price to its own customers, at 2 euros/min. This is really a lot more reasonable than Polish prices. Anyway, you should also consider that TIM offers this price to its own customers, not roaming ones. So, if roaming in itself is a rip-off, it'easy to understand why roaming on a ship is a "double super" rip-off.

About prices on site and real billing prices, I suppose that if they have put such high prices on their site, is because they want people to pay such prices, not just to scare them, don't you think?

Maybe they can't now, but they WILL make you pay such prices. And I don't think that the other operators will keep the current low prices. When GSM operators smell money, they usually jump on the prey as fast as they can.



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Przemolog (Offline)
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Default 24-08-2005, 12:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
Maybe it souds like a strange behaviour to you, but here in Italy operators just want to get new customers, and want other operators to lose them. So they offer incredible (or at least they seem to be so) offers, like "600 euros free if you make a number portability to Wind" or "9000 euros free if you make a number poratability to 3 ITA". In such a sick market, TIM wants people to port their number to TIM, and in fact it offers NP service directly on board Costa ships!
I understand, but why do you call this situation sick? Are there real no advantages to customers?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
To be honest, TIM offers quite a reasonable price to its own customers, at 2 euros/min. This is really a lot more reasonable than Polish prices. Anyway, you should also consider that TIM offers this price to its own customers, not roaming ones. So, if roaming in itself is a rip-off, it'easy to understand why roaming on a ship is a "double super" rip-off.
Polish operators in postpaid roaming use the following pricing policy. They take the fee charged by the foreign operator, add 15% of their comission, and to all that they add 22% VAT (and exchange rates of foreign currencies are not shown to the public :P). So, if TIM charges Polish ops so high, all what they can do is to decrease their comission or to renegotiate the roaming agreement with TIM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
About prices on site and real billing prices, I suppose that if they have put such high prices on their site, is because they want people to pay such prices, not just to scare them, don't you think?
Sure they want customers to pay. But if anyone sees such crazy prices, the he/she will just get _scared_ and turn off the phone before boarding the ship and the op will earn nothing !. I wrote this sentence because of another reason - websites of Polish ops contain a lot of ancient or false info and that might be the case .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
Maybe they can't now, but they WILL make you pay such prices. And I don't think that the other operators will keep the current low prices. When GSM operators smell money, they usually jump on the prey as fast as they can.
Not only GSM ops, each business does - we must live with it just like with just with the laws of physics .
   
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Default 24-08-2005, 12:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by Przemolog
I understand, but why do you call this situation sick? Are there real no advantages to customers?
Italian customers have only a big confusion and not so good prices... our tariff plans are only growing and returning with old billing 60/60 or 30/30

Also did you find something about other GSM on the ship services? Gsmworld.com maybe doesn't know this thing...


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Przemolog (Offline)
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Default 24-08-2005, 13:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreA
Italian customers have only a big confusion and not so good prices... our tariff plans are only growing and returning with old billing 60/60 or 30/30
I am very sorry becuase of that? Any secret price agreement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreA
Also did you find something about other GSM on the ship services? Gsmworld.com maybe doesn't know this thing...
Sorry, I had no time. But MCP previously mentioned by me looks interesting because it seems to be the only (known to me) operator which specializes in such "on ship" services.

And, just for fun, I googled "gsm on ship" and:
http://www.mobitel.si/slo/Ponudba/GSMnaroc...rater.asp?id=35

So it's not true that only Polish ops charge extra for TIM "on ship" roaming....
   
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Default 01-09-2005, 18:36

Seems impossible to me that foreign operators are deliberately charged less... I think it's just a problem of disorganized inter-operators agreements (e.g. Riiing is not aware of the difference between Tim inlands and Tim onboard), but that's just my impression.

I found some information on how Gsm onboard ships works on
http://www.thedigitalship.com/powerpoints/...0altobridge.pdf.
It mentions that part of the price charged goes directly to the ship (who installed the equipment onboard...)

I believe that, of course, you might have already seen
http://www.geolink.com/oceancell.htm (quoting superferries - which, by the way, is not a greek company!).

Interesting: my understanding is that the ship network gets disconnected automatically, when reaching the costline (to avoid people inland to roam on the ship) through GPS... Amazing, isn't it?


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Default 01-09-2005, 19:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Przemolog
I am very sorry becuase of that? Any secret price agreement?
I suppose that... :ranting2:


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AndreA (Offline)
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Default 01-09-2005, 20:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by sec
Seems impossible to me that foreign operators are deliberately charged less... I think it's just a problem of disorganized inter-operators agreements (e.g. Riiing is not aware of the difference between Tim inlands and Tim onboard), but that's just my impression.
Maybe in the future they'll change it, but actually we don't have any difference about that :whistle:

Quote:
I found some information on how Gsm onboard ships works on
http://www.thedigitalship.com/powerpoints/...0altobridge.pdf.
It mentions that part of the price charged goes directly to the ship (who installed the equipment onboard...)

I believe that, of course, you might have already seen
http://www.geolink.com/oceancell.htm (quoting superferries - which, by the way, is not a greek company!).

Interesting: my understanding is that the ship network gets disconnected automatically, when reaching the costline (to avoid people inland to roam on the ship) through GPS... Amazing, isn't it?
You found 2 really interesting links

Also it's false that GSM on the ship is disconnected automatically... maybe they DON'T want to do it :unsure: in fact it's very easy to find the signal of SIMINN if you are close to the ship in Ancona, Patra and Igoumenitsa... :P

PS: about Superfast http://superfast.com/Adriatic/Englis...v/aen_info.asp and http://superfast.com/Adriatic/Englis.../aen_fleet.asp B)


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Kurgan (Offline)
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Default 01-09-2005, 21:43

As I was writing in another thread, I am currently onboard Costa Classica cruising along Greece, and I have TIM on board coverage (nice surprise, because I thought that Costa Classica did not have this facility), which i use with my Riiing sim at "normal" inalnd Italian prices, in zone 1. I just laugh at my friends that spend 2 euros/min both for calling ad receiving with TIM sim cards!

I'll read all of the interesting articles linked to this thread when I'll get home.

PS: It seems that on board coverage is switched on and off manually, because sometimes they seem to forget to switch it on or off, and do it late.



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