Eu Regulatory Issues

[snaimon]

Originally Posted by sec

... but I do apologize for the mistake :blush: (not totatlly my fault: I just copied it from the article which was incorrect): it's Austria, not Ireland currently chairing the European Commission! The Irish, however, are very active in bringing forward the point concerning roaming.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/reuters/2..._L23314532.html

Thanks.

Obviously, the major telcom players would not be too happy to see this lucrative revenue source dry up. Time will tell what tarif relief, if any, will come about. We can speculate all day and still be off totally base.

Just my somewhat worthless thougths..... At this point in time it is hard to imagine FREE INBOUND CALLS across the entire EU as some of the international providers like UM & 09 offer. A more reasonable expectation would be lower OUTBOUND and INBOUND rates -- perhaps a rate cut of 50%. Even with that, inbound on German D1 will be 40 e-cents and I believe the lowest outbound with be 1 Euro per minute.

You would certainly think T-MO and Voda would be able to offer lower roaming rates on internal partner networks. You would even imagine they could program the SIM cards to RESTRICT roaming to these internal partner networks only. True, that would reduce their revenues.

Stan

[DRNewcomb]

Originally Posted by snaimon

Obviously, the major telcom players would not be too happy to see this lucrative revenue source dry up.

The problem is that it is already drying up. The competition is on and travelers are finding ways around sky-high roaming costs. The question is, "Do the carriers want to keep a small profit and keep the roaming business or give the entire business to companies like UM & 09?"

[snaimon]

Originally Posted by DRNewcomb

The problem is that it is already drying up. The competition is on and travelers are finding ways around sky-high roaming costs. The question is, "Do the carriers want to keep a small profit and keep the roaming business or give the entire business to companies like UM & 09?"

DR, I am mot sure I agree ENTIRELY.

Certainly some people are obviously looking for and finding other alternatives. There is an international SIM card swap thread on telfon-treff.de. There was a recent post, now mysteriously GONE on the same site. Someone (probably German -- at least German-speaking) going to Congo and Gabon with UN or German Army (he used the term BLUE HAT which would be UN). He was looking for GSM service there and had obviously not heard of UM, 09 or any of the other international cards. The first advice given to him was to contact the German foreign office for advice. My first advice is always www.prepaidgsm.net and reference to international providers combined with calling cards.

Teltarif recently (last week) ran an article about CDU/CSU members of Parliament speaking out against high EU roaming rates. Even Teltarif did not mention this site or any of the standard international providers. I wrote a feedback email to them, but have not heard anything. If you look at the teltarif linked info on roaming, you will not find any mention of the international providers. You will see info on them in the discussions forum, however, although not much. I cannot figure out why the German/European mobile-users seem oblivious to these options. Perhaps UM and the others should advertise more?

Stan

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by DRNewcomb

The problem is that it is already drying up. The competition is on and travelers are finding ways around sky-high roaming costs. The question is, "Do the carriers want to keep a small profit and keep the roaming business or give the entire business to companies like UM & 09?"

Once again, UM/09/Callkey incarnations and whatever you want can't push "regular" roaming services out of business because of several reasons:
1) Expensive starter packs
2) Handset compatibility issues
3) Due to sophisticated callback techniques used, limited access to SIM/phone number lists
4) Being available on a foreign (to most potential callers) number (or at least "semi-foreign" in case of UK->IoM calls)
5) Necessity of unlocking the handset

The disadvantages below are valid for some SIMs only
6) Possible problems with topping up when out of credit - not each of them allows to charge a credit directly from the phone
7) No caller ID
No data transfer
9) No voicemail

I'm almost sure that I forgot something but I feel justified - it's late here

Half OT. I can tell you a few words about reactions on releasing Riiing on the Polish GSM
newsgroups (I recall that Poland is a poor CPP country where roaming rates offered from local operators, especially for incoming calls are considered much too high). Of course there were many enthusiasts who were happy for CPP in roaming. But some opinions were like those: "calling to Liechtenstein is so expensive so who will call me at all?" or "the SIM is too expensive - no real savings"

[snaimon]

Another few examples....

Ebay buy-it-now items such as

1. GT-SIM (he has sold 4 of 20 in a recent auction with 16 remaining); he is a German seller and this is on ebay.de

2. RIIING SIM (unart-Studio, again on ebay.de -- has sold 6 of 20 items, 14 available); also a German seller on ebay.de.

Both items in stores and have been available for days if not weeks. They are not exactly flying of the shelf. With FREE INBOUND and certainly competitive outbound rates, I cannot understand why these items are not sold out quickly IF PEOPLE KNEW.

One ebay.de seller is even offering a cheap method to call Liechtenstein mobiles from Germany to take away some of the bite.

Compare to the ebay.usa seller of T-MO US $100 refills for $88 -- have bought 2 of those myself. He offers 3 - 5 at one time. Like a 12% discount -- stinking 12%! Those items are gone in < 24 hours.

Stan

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by snaimon

Teltarif recently (last week) ran an article about CDU/CSU members of Parliament speaking out against high EU roaming rates. Even Teltarif did not mention this site or any of the standard international providers. (...) I cannot figure out why the German/European mobile-users seem oblivious to these options. Perhaps UM and the others should advertise more?

As to Polish GSM portals, the first info about an international SIM (precisely UM) appeared only 2 weeks ago (and it looked like a text sponsored by its Polish dealer ).

I can't believe that editors of those portals didn't know about international SIMs at all - they appeared in comments/discussions on forums many times (I posted some, with URL ).

The only exception I remeber is that one of portals announced once Buytel

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by snaimon

Both items in stores and have been available for days if not weeks. They are not exactly flying of the shelf. With FREE INBOUND and certainly competitive outbound rates, I cannot understand why these items are not sold out quickly IF PEOPLE KNEW.

Stan, read my earlier post in this thread (reply to DRN) - it's not about knowing or not only!

[snaimon]

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Once again, UM/09/Callkey incarnations and whatever you want can't push "regular" roaming services out of business because of several reasons:
1) Expensive starter packs
2) Handset compatibility issues
3) Due to sophisticated callback techniques used, limited access to SIM/phone number lists
4) Being available on a foreign (to most potential callers) number (or at least "semi-foreign" in case of UK->IoM calls)

The disadvantages below are valid for some SIMs only
5) Possible problems with topping up when out of credit - not each of them allows to charge a credit directly from the phone
6) No caller ID
7) No data transfer
No voicemail

I'm almost sure that I forgot something but I feel justified - it's late here

Half OT. I can tell you a few words about reactions on releasing Riiing on the Polish GSM
newsgroups (I recall that Poland is a poor CPP country where roaming rates offered from local operators, especially for incoming calls are considered much too high). Of course there were many enthusiasts who were happy for CPP in roaming. But some opinions were like those: "calling to Liechtenstein is so expensive so who will call me at all?" or "the SIM is too expensive - no real savings"

You make valid points for resistance. I grant you calling out is not as convenient as with your local/national phone. How much are you [I write YOU but I mean someone from Poland or Austria or France or whatever European country] willing to pay for the convenience of using your local/national phone in a semi-un-united Europe, at least in terms of mobile cell phones? PERSONALLY, I am not willing to pay T-MO US $2.00 per minute to send and receive calls while in Europe on my handset with their SIM card.

But I guess it depends on your expectations. If you rely heavily on the cell phone for your daily routine, then those points you mentioned are indeed potent obstacles. Habits are hard to change. If you are expecting to pay local rates while roaming, then I guess you are going to be disappointed.

PERSONALLY, when I travel my primary concern is REACHING OTHERS back home and REACHING MY FAMILY with me. True, those may not be the concerns of the normal European user. Using CBW and Riiing, I can call the US from my cell for $0.14 per minute if needed -- not bad, I would say. Outbound rates to Germany directly or with CBW are reasonable, although not fantastic. My family can reach me by SMS or I can signal me to call them if I get caller ID -- let phone ring once and hang up -- should show up in missed call list. The CBW rate for Liechtenstein to a Polish mobile is $0.347 US -- landline is less ~ $0.23. The rate for Liechtenstein to a German mobile is $0.40 US. Considering that my daytime D1 XtraOne national rate to a non-D1 mobile is .79 e-cents (~$1.00 per minute), over time there should be savings to be reaped.

I also recommend a good calling card for or from the destination country to be used in preference to the cell phone. The cell phone phonebook can be still be used to keep those numbers.

Regarding the high initial cost of the packet, I would suggest buyers take a longer term view. IF the user travels out of the country every year on vacation and to different destinations, then surely the investment will pay off in a few years, no? Compare to buy starter packs in various destinations and sell, swap or dispose.

How much does an international SMS cost? Can't friends from home send and SMS if they need to reach you? Then YOU can call them back --- obviously at your expense, but at least they can reach you. Or, carry a second phone along with the national mobile. They can send the SMS to your national phone and you call them back however, landline with calling card or with your international mobile. Yes, pain in the rump to carry 2 phones. I have a family of 4 adults. We'll be taking 5 phones, one for each + a backup.

At least with the UM card, NONE of my phones has experienced compatibility issues -- Nokia 6610, various MOTOs (P-280, V66, V300, V330, V18 and even a Treo 270 and Treo 600. TRUE, your mileage may vary.

Stan

[snaimon]

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Stan, read my earlier post in this thread (reply to DRN) - it's not about knowing or not only!

Yes, agree, not necessarily just about NOT KNOWING.

OTOH, on those discussions I mentioned, I have not seen ANY posts citing the points you mentioned. I am not doubting that your friends bring up those points -- and again, I admit they are valid.

A neighbor here who attends same church travels internationally. His company -- I believe he is the owner -- RENTS a Verizon phone for his international travels. I am lead to believe that is an expensive way to go. I have suggested to him recently various international SIMs. He said he would investigate. I'll let you know. At least he knows enough not to use his Cingular phone abroad. He has a Treo 600 or 650 and that phone should work on UM --- if he can get it unlocked.

Stan

[DRNewcomb]

Originally Posted by snaimon

A neighbor here who attends same church travels internationally. His company -- I believe he is the owner -- RENTS a Verizon phone for his international travels.

Many organizations would rather pay $2/min to get an itemized call log than pay 15c/min with no call log. The bean counters rule the world but they don't actually care about reducing costs, they only demand to be able to count them.