Belgium 'abolished'

[Asick]

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Unless you have to transfer to another airport....

Oh, yes, this is a problem. However, it's often used to be the only international airport per a city for most of the connections, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Yes, I realise that, but you mentioned travelling by train from Russia to Turkey. Then you must travel via Romania and Bulgaria paying an international train tariff - it's not that low even in eastern Europe now.

Look, the direct train to Istanbul would be expensive, you are right. However, here's a great layer of very popular cheap tours, which are half bus half train. It means the train part is used to cross exUSSR (cheap train tariffs) and then they use buses to finalize the route (buses are usually rented at border cities, such as Brest, Lviv or Cisinau). It's usually 2 times cheaper than a plane tour, which is significant.

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Yes, it seems crazy to me that I can travel without visa not only to most Europe but also to countries so distant as Japan, New Zealand or Argentina but I can't cross the border with Belarus 100 km from my home .

For Russians it's a bit strange situation too. We have visa free traffic with some really distant countries such as Columbia or Marocco, but do not have it with almost all the non CIS neighbours. We can cross freely to some exYugoslavia states (Bosnia and Montenegro) and using vouchers to Croatia. We can enter Turkey with 'at-the-border' visas valid for 2 months etc., but EU is quite closed. There are some simplifications, though. For example, Cypriot visas are free and easy to get, and people of Russian North-West may apply for a Finnish visa (usually multiple entry 30 days per 6 months or even more) without any invitation. That's why the Finnish border seems to be unlocked from here, and you can see MUCH Russians and Russian cars in South-East Finland. Some people use these visas to enter other Schengen countries, they are valid for it with some specific restrictions. However, these are rather exceptions. A private visit to EU is always a headache for a 'normal' Russian. I guess they should quit the inhumane practice of giving visas just for the duration of your visit, I mean if you shows no problems for EU (normal travel history, place of work, salary etc.) you should get a 1-2 years valid or may be more multiple entries visa on auto basis. This is what Finns in fact do for St.Petersburg inhabitants, but it's still an exception. And, which is for sure, the same should be with Russian visas for EU citizens. This is what would decrease the visa headache dramatically, while visa free regulation is still not possible. However, it seems that embassies just like huge lines at their doors and grabbing money for every travel a person does.

Originally Posted by Przemolog

despite freshly regained freedom and democracy it was possible to travel without visas, vouchers or invitations only to Hungary, Romania, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and... Argentina . Also 24-hrs transit was allowed via Czechoslovakia or the USSR.

Well... visa regulations in fact more depends on economics and crime than on politic state. Unless there's a country that specially block their borders, the level of democracy is not seriously considered there. For example, a country might be perfectly democratic, but EU or USA would never allow visa free traffic with it's citizens if their salary is about 50-100 Euros/month average. From another hand, people of Paraguay or Bruney may enter the Schengen territory without visas. Real democracy, eh?.. Russia has 300/month average and normal 1000/month in Moscow or St.Petersburg, but I guess they more consider problem of crime and North Caucasus than 'so-so' democracy.

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Yes, they had better living conditions than we did. E.g., my aunt who lives in Świnoujście (the north-west "corner" od Poland) used to buy Polish toilet paper in GDR (because it was permamently missing in Polish shops)

Oh, this is funny! I believe the money allowed to exchange was quite enough to buy all the toilet paper your aunt needed. By the way, I have a bit strange memory. You know, in late 80's rumor had that Poles were buying lots of Soviet hi-tech (mostly TVsets), so that were them who created global deficit in this layer of goods in USSR, especially in big Soviet cities such as Moscow or Leningrad. Although I'm sure it's exaggeration, is it somehow correct?

Originally Posted by Przemolog

However, even more Poles have emmigrated since the EU accession - but at least they are only economical emmigrants - not political ones.

I understand it. Here we had few political emmigrants till the late 80s (few because most of them were sent out by KGB as very 'annoying' persons, they could not emmigrate by themselves). Then it was really intensive wave of emmigrants, both political and economical. There was another wave after the crisis of 1998. Currently I guess just a few emmigrate from here since salaries are acceptable and most of the political emmigrants have already left.

Originally Posted by Przemolog

There used to be a Dorohusk-Jagodin railway crossing on Warszawa-Lublin-Kiev route in the 1950's but it was closed and reopened only in 1988 or 1989. There were no border crossing with Lithuanian SSR and Kalinigradskaya oblast'.

Oh, it's in fact seen on old Soviet maps, but I thought it was just not all the information shown. Now I see there was as it was shown. So, the road crossings at Mamonovo and Bagrationovsk (Kaliningrad area) and at Grodno are 'new'? I crossed through them in 90s and some of them looked a bit 'used'.

Originally Posted by Przemolog

This fear was so great that Czechoslovakia opened it's borders only in 1991 when it truned that Czech and Slovaks buy more in Poland than Poles in Czechoslovakia

From another hand, it was almost visa free traffic between Czech republic and Russia since 1993 or about that, so they seemed to change their view completely fast enough. I crossed Polish-Czech border a few times in middle 90s, I can hardly say the traffic was intensive and goods oriented. No, it was rather people going for a day walk and back, sometimes by feet and no goods carrying.

Originally Posted by Przemolog

They were source of precious convertible currencies - it was more important than ideology

Oh, yes, although I guess it was not that much comparing it with the oil money that USSR was getting in late 70s and early 80s.

[Malkav]

Going back to the forum title and origional topic, Yes Belgium Should be abolished....same as luxembourge and other small silly countries, andorra, monaco, san marino, the vatican...they are taking up to much space...

[AndreA]

Originally Posted by Malkav

Going back to the forum title and origional topic, Yes Belgium Should be abolished....same as luxembourge and other small silly countries, andorra, monaco, san marino, the vatican...

We just did it

Porta Pia It was through an artillery-opened breach in the wall near here that on September 20, 1870 Bersaglieri soldiers entered Rome and completed the unification of Italy.

[Asick]

Originally Posted by Malkav

Going back to the forum title and origional topic, Yes Belgium Should be abolished....same as luxembourge and other small silly countries, andorra, monaco, san marino, the vatican...they are taking up to much space...

You can call me a non modern person or a populist , but I really guess many nations do deserve independence much more than these pseudo-countries you listed above. I mean Curds, Abkhazians, Basques, Tibetians etc. These are real nations which are different from their 'owners' (often they are from another group of ethnoses) and who have been fighting for their right to get independent, while all these Andorra (in fact Catalonia), San Marino (Italy) etc. at present are too tiny and too similar to their neighbours to be really independent. So, either Curds and Basques should be independent too or Andorra should be Spain and San Marino should be Italy, the rest is unfair.

[AndreA]

en

Originally Posted by Asick

You can call me a non modern person or a populist , but I really guess many nations do deserve independence much more than these pseudo-countries you listed above. I mean Curds, Abkhazians, Basques, Tibetians etc. These are real nations which are different from their 'owners' (often they are from another group of ethnoses) and who have been fighting for their right to get independent, while all these Andorra (in fact Catalonia), San Marino (Italy) etc. at present are too tiny and too similar to their neighbours to be really independent. So, either Curds and Basques should be independent too or Andorra should be Spain and San Marino should be Italy, the rest is unfair.

Well, I understand you and your point of view is right. We have to think about REAL nations not yet live. But we have to respect other specular situations too, small is not less respect. For example San Marino: they are NOT Italy. They have italian culture and language (as Ticino in Switzerland, but no one is thinking that swiss part is... italy), but a real important national story. Yes, San Marino is the fifth least-populous sovereign country in the world but it's the oldest constitutional republic still in existence today. Not only. During the early phase of the Italian unification process of the 19th century, San Marino served as a haven of refuge for numerous persons who were persecuted because of their support for Italian unity. In memory of this support, Giuseppe Garibaldi accepted the wish of San Marino not to be incorporated into the new Italian state. Well they are so close to Italy, but so proud for the independence too.

[Asick]

Originally Posted by AndreA

Giuseppe Garibaldi accepted the wish of San Marino not to be incorporated into the new Italian state. Well they are so close to Italy, but so proud for the independence too.

Actually I know this story, but I believe a separate nation (from ethnic point of view) has more rights to get independent than a part of the same (or almost the same) nation that got a bit separated for some historic reasons. I don't want San Marino to join Italy , don't treat my words as any offence, I just mean it's not fair play while Curds or Tibetians are not independent and San Marino is. It's just because it was much easier to get independence and to change borders in 19th century than now when borders are in fact frozen, but do you think national minorities should be glad because of that change in rules?

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by Malkav

Going back to the forum title and origional topic, Yes Belgium Should be abolished....same as luxembourge and other small silly countries, andorra, monaco, san marino, the vatican...they are taking up to much space...

But what do you REALLY mean by "abolishing Belgium"? If it were divided into Wallonia and Flanders, then instead of one small country, you would have two even smaller? So what - to join Flanders to the Netherlands and Wallonia to France? So, what's next? To share Switzerland between Germany, France and Italy? To join Austria to Germany? To reunite Serbian-language post-Yugoslavian area??? Well, if you don't like small countries, what about autonomic territories like Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Gibraltar or Faeroe? If San Marino were to become a part of Italy, why Isle of Man shouldn't be a part of UK?

Do you know the answers???

[Malkav]

Originally Posted by Przemolog

But what do you REALLY mean by "abolishing Belgium"? If it were divided into Wallonia and Flanders, then instead of one small country, you would have two even smaller? So what - to join Flanders to the Netherlands and Wallonia to France? So, what's next? To share Switzerland between Germany, France and Italy? To join Austria to Germany? To reunite Serbian-language post-Yugoslavian area??? Well, if you don't like small countries, what about autonomic territories like Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Gibraltar or Faeroe? If San Marino were to become a part of Italy, why Isle of Man shouldn't be a part of UK?

Do you know the answers???

i do like small countries its just the ting ones i find 'unusual...such as andorra, vatican san marino, they are like mini variations of there larger neighbours etc...many of the smaller ones you have to travel through one country to get there...whats the point....whereas jersey, guernsy and gibralter you can get there direct as they have indipendant borders!! (ie ways in and out that dont involve crossing another countries airspace!

techincally the isle of man is its own country, it was neurtral in ww2, it has its own parliment and laws, and issues its own stamps and passports! it is a 'crown dependency' wich is as far as i can dissern means 'that they have her maj (our Liz) as there head of state somewhat akin to canada and NZ et al but they are somewhat dependant on the uk mainland fr such things as gas, military aid etc...(though i could be wrong!)

re the kurds etc all wanting there own country, why not! 'the republic of kurdistan has a ring to it!'

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by Malkav

i do like small countries its just the ting ones i find 'unusual...such as andorra, vatican san marino, they are like mini variations of there larger neighbours etc...many of the smaller ones you have to travel through one country to get there...whats the point....whereas jersey, guernsy and gibralter you can get there direct as they have indipendant borders!! (ie ways in and out that dont involve crossing another countries airspace!

So, what is your point? The existence of small countries doesn't really disturb anything. Moreover, they bring extra profits as tourist attractions (of course sometimes supported by low taxes on alcohol and tobacco, as in case of Andorra and San Marino ).

[Malkav]

Originally Posted by Przemolog

So, what is your point? The existence of small countries doesn't really disturb anything. Moreover, they bring extra profits as tourist attractions (of course sometimes supported by low taxes on alcohol and tobacco, as in case of Andorra and San Marino ).

...well its my opinion that they be abolished, however now you mention cheap booze...mmmmmmm your argument is a compeling one heheheheh


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