The teltarif editorial today (2 April) about high European roaming and LD rates from mobile phones poo-poos calling cards as being clumsy (like entering all those #s, toll free dial in, PIN, destinaltion # and the possibility of errors).

So, do you agree?

Some US cards (MCI allow FREE PINLESS US dialing!) and some cards (Onesuite, Enjoyprepaid to name just a few) also offer pinless US dialing using the internet. CBW will recognize your # and call you back IF YOU REGISTER IT!? ATT will allow you pinless dialing FOR A FEE.

1. Why they don't allow this for your mobile? It cannot be a TECHNICAL matter, can it?

2. What MCI can do, the European calling card companies can do, too, true?

3. Seems to me people want CONVENIENCE over everything...... Like my darling wife dialing Australia DIRECTLY for $3 / minute (a one time $12 mistake) with our Verizon no-frills LD plan INSTEAD OF using one of our many dial-arounds. I even have speed dials programmed into our home phones (press memory, press 2, enter destination #) -- but NO, just dial directly! Naturally, from your mobile (thank goodness she hardly uses her mobile!), because you ALWAYS have it on and with you, even on the POT and in the shower?!

4. On my phone(s), I try to pre-program speed dial buttons to enter #s, passwords, pauses, etc. That works for DIRECT DIALS, but I am not sure how to just generate the tones say using Riiing + CBW.

End of rant.

Stan

Hmm, it seems to me that this topic might be interesting so why there's no discussion? :)
OK, I hope I'll say something later today :whistle:

Sure, I do!

How the billing system recognizes the card without the PIN?

Do you mean DID based callback?

What exactly? You can use CBW with a mobile phone...

Pinless dialing?

This is what I wanted to say about international sims being not so competetive to compare with the "regular" roaming: http://www.prepaidgsm.net/forum/index.php?...topic=1024&st=0

My wife had problems with remebering about peak hours and on-net/off-net (when and what numbers to call to mobile phones from a landline/a mobile). Happily the mobile rates have changed and now the rule is simple: mobile to mobile, landline to landline. Happily she doesn't need to call abroad but if she had, she has relatively low rates from her mobile...

Hmmm, wives and women in general :whistle: Their preference to convience over costs sometimes horrifies me... Oh, something politically incorrect is in the air :D.

Do you want to program in the Riiing SIM, or the phone's memory a "single dial" entry like +1234YourCBWDID#something#+1567YourDestinationNumb er?
I'm afraid it's simply impossible with callback :(

Yes, surprised there have been so few comments. Thanks. Further responses & clarifications.

"How the billing system recognizes the card without the PIN?"

Two methods:

1. You can dial in and choose to have the # remembered with a menu option
2. They have online forms where you enter #s you want to use

"Do you mean DID based callback?"

I believe this is it, but you must register your #, actually up to 3 numbers. Like method 2 above.

"What exactly? You can use CBW with a mobile phone..."

What I meant was that MCI, Enjoyprepaid, Onesuite, for instance, will not allow NON-US numbers to be registered for pinless dialing.

"Pinless dialing?"

Yes, pinless dialing.

As to my wife, she forgot. Not the first time, either, but I can forgive and understand that. I forget things, too..... my keys, my glasses, my credit card, etc.

"Do you want to program in the Riiing SIM, or the phone's memory a "single dial" entry like +1234YourCBWDID#something#+1567YourDestinationNumb er?
I'm afraid it's simply impossible with callback"

TRUE. I can program the single dial (CBW entry). I can't USE the entries in my phone book to dial the final destination # AFTER the callback. Think we need tone generators for that WITHOUT dialing.

You can open the phonebook and send DTMF. Or I believe you can set up speed dials on the CBW or other accounts - I don't know if these are single or multi-digit eg home = 1 or 11


As for calling card and callthrough details ...... these can be saved as long multiple numbers. Most SIMs have space for only 2 or 3 at any length over 20 characters, but the phone memory will hold more and longer versions.

Been there, done that. My darling made repeated calls to me when I was in Japan with her mobile at $2.50/min! Some people just can't bother clutter their lives with questions of what's the cheapest way to make a phone call. This is why when people ask about the "best" way to do something, I always ask the to define "best".

Thanks, Andy.

I am not quite sure how to send the DTMF. I mainly wish to use my Treo. As an alternative I have serveral MOTOs. I'll look in the Treo manual for DTMF. When I dial or try speed dial on the callback or calling card connection, the Treo asks if I want to make another call and of course I don't want to put the open line on hold, I just want to send the DTMF string.

Yes, you are right about CBW. Problem is I believe there are limited numbers and for my voice mail I would still need to send additional tones.

Yes, for calling cards and callthrus, these work OK from the US. I usually re-program the destination number each time. That of course could be done for overseas but it can get hairy. Without callback: Local access, pause, PIN, pause, final destination #, possibly additional longer pause, voicemail access digits, pause, mailbox #, pause, mailbox password --

Example: 0211 XXX XXXXX Pause CALLING CARD PIN[123456] PAUSE PAUSE US VM destination [011 804 nnnnnnn] PAUSE PAUSE [VM pickup code] # pause [mailbox #] 4444 pause [VM PIN] 9999999999

I count > 40 space entries. A pain entering but a pain dialing, too.

Stan

Instead of entering the numbers, press Options key in call, then look for DTMF - you can either enter numbers or search the phone book, then Send DTMF

Thanks for the tip. No ref to DTMF in the Treo manual that I have. The phone or dial pad menu does NOT have under OPTIONS a DTMF entry. I cannot use the phonebook for DTMF dialing at all during a call - when I try to dial an entry I am prompted DO YOU WANT TO DIAL ANOTHER CALL? If I answer yes it puts the first call on hold and tries to dial another line. There is no option for dial DTMF on the phonebook menu. if I answer NO, I am back to the call in progress without sending any tones. The Treo is an odd beast.

DTMF IS in the V-300 manual and only active during a call.

Stan

I found the "Auto DTMF" options active during call in my Trium Eclipse - works for both incoming and autogoing calls. It allows to search the phone book. as you described.
But...
1) You must search the phone book quickly - callback/calling card/callthru operator will not wait too long before disconnecting :)
2) The format of the destination number - that might a problem! It's usually recommeded to store numbers in GSM phones in the international format (with leading +). But, of course, this won't work for services under consideration (what is a DTMF tone for + ;-)?). It will be OK if the calling card service and direct dialling (in areas where you want dial directly, I mean mainly home country) both support the common format like 00CountryCodeNumber - you can use entries in this format. But what about e.g. CBW - they require numbers with _nothing_ preceding the country code.
E.g. I can store my home landline number +4881xxxxxxx to be usable with Orange Poland SIM in one of the following formats:
1. 81xxxxxxx
2. 081xxxxxxx
3. 004881xxxxxxx
4. +4881xxxxxxx.

The format 1 and 2 are valid when I call from Poland only, 3 should work also in roaming countries with 00 "international exit code", and 4 of course is valid anywhere.

But if needed the same number to be used with CBW, I would have make a duplicate entry 4881xxxxxxx (or perhaps 4881xxxxxxx#). No so nice, if some would have to duplicate dozens of contacts... Of course, if I dialed directly 4881xxxxxxx, I wouldn't be connected in roaming (I suppose) and in Poland, the operator would try me to connect with the number +484881xxxxxxx (Polish area code 48, of course such a number doesn't exist - too long :-)).

I use one phone for the Riiing SIM, and the numbers are stored on the phone in the callback company format eg 441.........# and on the SIM in ordinary format with +44etc. The phone is usually set on phone memory to use the DTMF sending as above, and I use the SIM memory via the menu dialling as required eg call balance. I think some people might find it as logical to have these the other way round, then the normal format phone memory would be usable with other SIMs.

You're right, it's a logical solution that you suggest. But you can't really avoid double typing the numbers or as least copying them from one memory to another (SIM2phone or vice versa) and editing later.
And how about USSD roaming sims like Hop? I guess you would suggest storing numbers "enriched" with necessary USSD stuff on the SIM, and "pure" (no leading +) numbers in the phone, right? Then SIM-stored numbers would be used for USSD based calling, and phone-stored numbers for CallerID and callback services...Did I miss anything? :)

calling cards i use recognise your mob number, so its pinless entry :)

Thanks! What brands are your calling cards or who is the provider and is there a website for rate comparison?

Do they work outside BULGARIA?

That is actually my issue..... The US cards I mentioned above DO NOT ALLOW PINLESS DIALING EXCEPT IN THE US. Now, pinless dialing is indeed a fine thing, but if I have to be at home to use them, then I have extra work to do entering pins, etc. when I travel overseas.

Stan

But it isn't so terrible - you can save the PIN in the phonebook with the number, and maybe even speed dials as well for common numbers like home, eg 0800....p......p*5

TRUE. BUT....

1. There are a limited # of speed dial "buttons" to program on the TREO and that is the only way I can do it on that device; phonebook does not work on the TREO that way.

2. GIVEN THE FACT THAT PINLESS DIALING is possible, WHY won't they allow it with ANY #, including a foreign cell phone?

Stan

I'm still not quite sure how pinless dialing (i.e. recognizing the card withou the PIN) is performed technically - by using Caller ID?
If so, perhaps the operators are afraid of reliability of foreign identification?

I don't know why not, but the same applies to my UK based one as well - from Germany I have the account and PIN saved with the access number, and 3 speed dials saved on the SIM.

I didn't mean speed dial of the phone keyboard; I meant speed dials set up in the account itself. Thus you don't need to open the phonebook midcall if the complete 3 part number is saved then dialled - eg 08001890116p210xxxxxx65p*5 - some SIMs seem to allow up to 3 up to 32 digit numbers; more would need to be in the phone memory instead (up to 48 characters I think)

In the same way, some callback companies allow setting up of some speed dials. This means it's possible to call home with as little as 3 key presses, one to start the callback, then eg 1#

Przemolog: TRUE, probably by caller id; don't see another way.

Andy:CBW allows speed dials TRUE. My favorite calling card (Enjoyprepaid)and its knock-off (cloncom connect) do not. Admit I
have NOT set up CBW speed dials as yet. I was not overseas last summer and mainly used PIN2DEST to call the family.

I thought you said you used a Bizon card. Does that allow speed dials? If it does, I may look into that. Which of your services allow speed dials?

Stan

Bizon only allows PINless dialling in USA (and maybe Canada - I haven't checked). You can register up to 6 numbers

But 0 speed dials, true? A pity.

ONESUITE allows speed dials, but their rates are higher from Europe than cloncom or enjoyprepaid.

you could always add pauses in the numbers like local access #, p , pin#, p , dest# thats how a couple entrys in my phone book are looks a little odd but it works

Thanks, jervin.

That will work from a phone like my Motorola or Nokia. The TREO (phone in question) phonebook does not allow that; I can only use the speed-dials to add pauses. Also, the TREO does not have an option to generate tones WITHOUT DIALING A BRAND NEW CALL.

Stan

hey i live in the UK... uk calling cards

callmebaby
unitel lyca

the 2nd one , allows you to save the phone numbers in the menu for quick dialling

Don't suppose you have a web link for those cards? Can ANYONE purchase such a card and can it be used OUTSIDE the UK?

Tnx,

Stan

NO, they dont have a web site... they are really advanced cards which can remember a number of #s for pinless dialling. I buy them from china town in london. They have access # in UK, france, italy, spain... says call for more numbers.

Ill let you know

I'm studying Lycatel for a PhD in convoluted terms and conditions and complicated billing, but it's going pretty slowly. The first paragraph is a masterpiece of mind-twisting, then when think you've got your balance back ...

Roughly translated - there are simpler options

Can it be used abroad? - I don't dare ask

A 10 pence maintenance charge will be levied daily following first use of the card.

I don't like it already! DAILY! :thumbdown:

Forget it!

Stan

What is you PhD thesis about? "White collar" crimes :D?


I think that first of all there are cheaper options :P

Why not? Simply the conclusion would be "I can't afford it" :P

LYCATEL netherlands is the provider of my card. There is no connection charge, no maintenance charge, no end of call charge, 90day expire. per minute billing. and so on.....

for 5pounds you get 3200minutes to european landlines. what more could you want

Where can one living in the US buy such a card.... and read more about services? Are there other denominations? 5 quid is a bit much to use in 90 days; I have other cards, too. No web link?

Stan

i can get you one. But i dont think it covers the us

damn stupid not lycatel, but unitel lyca... sorry andy , completely different

5, 50 , 100 pounds

ok, the thesis is out of the window

http://www.lycateleshop.com/Web/Webhome.aspx
http://www.unitelcardservices.ie/Cards.php?f=Lycatel

the first page [Lyca] only has calls from UK at the moment; all the other webpages are under development; it mentions Unitel and the Unitel card has Lycatel written on it and on its tariff page

the second [Unitel] page mentions Unitel and Lycatel - the page of Lycatel cards have the T&C I mentioned

so which is which? .

http://www.unitelcardservices.ie/Poster.php?t=UniTel


??? BUT there are no fees , i just spoke to customer services (24h)

But I must admit that the case might be worth some deeper investigation - how shameless some businesspersons can be ;)


I browsed the second site a little and I'm really impressed :P.
Links "CLICK HERE TO SEE TARIFF" point to JPGs with sets of strange numbers and unreadable T&Cs (or to empty pages in some cases):P
Who buys this rubbish?

i do :angry02: :red_bandana: :gun:

whats so unreadable about this one

http://www.unitelcardservices.ie/Poster.php?t=UniTel

btw if you go to gerard street in china town london, you will see the new posters with the new rates.

I'm sorry - no offence intended :)
As to readability I mean e.g. this one: http://www.unitelcardservices.ie/Poster.php?t=EuroTel

OK, this one is readable but... given the data on the poster and T&C I'm not able to calculate the exact total cost of a call to any destination. As for me it's a marketing blabla, not tariff information :thumbdown:

I'm sorry but don't you think that going to the shop to check the rates is a little ridiculous nowadays?

if your in london...

I have noticed a card by HAGENUK, Germany.

From an Ebay.de auction:

"Bei jedem ersten Anruf von einem neuen Anschlu? bzw. Handy werden Sie nach der Eingabe der Karten-PIN gefragt: "M?chten Sie Ihre Nummer speichern?"
Antworten Sie mit "Ja" (Taste "1" dr?cken), entf?llt zuk?nftig das Eingeben der PIN von diesem Telefon. Die Technik des Anbieters kann sich bis zu 40 Anrufer-
Nummern pro Karte merken; das geht auch, wenn Sie Ihre Rufnummer unterdr?ckt bzw. die sogenannte "Rufnummern-?bermittlung" deaktiviert haben"

The card will remember up to 40 origination numbers. During the first call from a new connection after entering the PIN, you will be asked if you want to save the number. Press the 1 key for yes and you will have pinless entry from this origin # in THIS origination #.

It does NOT say one way or the other if this will work in a foreign country.

Here are the toll free #s and countries.

Australien 1800353803
Belgien 080049211
Chile 12300204003
D?nemark 80882744
Finnland 0800116393
Frankreich 0805639871
Griechenland 00800126554
Gro?britannien 08003769278
Hong Kong 800966461
Indonesien 0018030113559
Irland 1800992835
Italien 800986291
Japan 00531121516
Kanada 18665617718
Kolumbien 018009155844
Neuseeland 0800449021
Niederlande 8000234429
Norwegen 80015814
?sterreich 0800677169
Polen 008001211558
Schweden 200885074
Schweiz 041800123401
Spanien *NEU 900806963
Spanien 800099905
S?dkorea 00798148006408
Thailand 001800120665189
T?rkei *NEU 08112338800
Ungarn 0680017192
USA 18662367036

Rates from Germany are DECENT -- UK land line is .042 Euro / minute from a landline and .242 Euro from a mobile, for example. Calling from mobiles -- rates are ALWAYS .2 Euro higher. To UK mobiles from land lines .19 - .5 Euro depending on provider firm.

Another example: from Germany to Poland land line .046 (major cites cheaper - .043 Euro) -- to mobile rates are ~ .27 - .28 Euro. Remember, FROM mobiles ADD .2 Euro.

I think I will buy one of these before we head for Germay..... as backup for my ATT, MCI, etc cards.

Stan