Are "international" SIMS becoming obsolete?
 

T-Mobile U.S. (and one or two other carriers in the world) can make use of UMA (Unlicensed Mobile Access) to connect via wifi and make "cell" calls as though you were home. No $1 to $3/min. roaming calls. No 30 to 50 cent/min calls using an intl. SIM.
It is as simple and easy as using your same cell phone at home.

Just hung up w. the otherr half who is in Costa Rica. UMA connection was perfect. Once you have connected to a wifi spot, the phone will automatically connect whenever you come in range.

I have a question: Wouldn't some 'smart" phones that can load and use Skype do the same sort of thing? How about users of Google Voice?

With wifi around the world becoming more ubiquitous, and more and more people using smart phones, it would seem this is what roamers will do more and more.

Am I missing something?


...mike

They do, for example on a Nokia E51 (and many others) there is a standard SIP VOIP client - I use that for voip calls when indoors and switch to mobile when out and about (plus, my voip provider has PSTN fallback so when the mobile doesn't register via VOIP for a while it diverts to the mobile number (at my cost)).

Until Google Voice forwards internationally, I'm struggling to find a real use for it, other than as a "find me" number that diverts to a US mobile or to a US VOIP number (ipkall.com) that goes to the VOIP account.

Depends largely on if you really need to be contacted, since you can't guarantee inbound calls with reach you with just wi-fi, you need roaming (or at least rerouting) for the times you are out of range. Also, it's getting practical to go find free wi-fi then make a call if saving money is the main objective, but it's still a lot easier to just dial from anywhere on a mobile network if you really want to make a call right now.

Finding free working hotspots and connecting to them is not really that easy. Roaming between them is not really automatic. Some wifi hotspots restrict what ports/protocols you can use, voip is often not working. When abroad, I usually try to find hotspots to call home, but calls normally come in when you are out of wifi coverage. Also, urgent business calls need to be made when there is no wifi avaialable (eg. on the road)...

Still cheaper to use global sim
 

It will stay for a long time cheaper using a global sim than to use something else.
The best it's to use a global sim with a VOIP company (eg betamax, or other) then the call can be really cheap almost like home calls.
luciano
PS : quality of VOIP calls on WIFI is not yet good, you can get really bad connection and always some echo to the people that you call.

We hike in the Alps and carry a cellphone for emergencies, either in case we need help or (more likely) our elderly parents need to reach us. While cellphone coverage is amazingly good even on remote trails, there aren't any WiFi hotspots out there ;) That may slowly change because even some alpine club huts now have Internet but that could take years. And even so, once you leave a hut there's no WiFi. So we'll need a global SIM for the foreseeable future even though we hope we won't need to use it much.

The genesis of international cards were, of course, the asininely high roaming rates that telcoms have used as a cash cow.....we see how many of the international cards have met their demise due to the eu's capping of rates....they would disappear completely if something could be done about the outright thievery (and that is what it is) of the North American carriers; nobody can tell me $.99/minute or $1.29/minute, which is what they charge both to make and receive calls when roaming at their cheapest rates, are anything other than nearly a license to steal from the customers. If they could ever get these carriers to realize that charging a going rate of perhaps 20 to 30 cents/minute for international roaming, then quite frankly it would spell the end of the need for international cards.

I love VOIP and have been struggling with Asterisks for years. I don't think it is at the point where it can replace roaming or prepaid SIMs. I think it can supplement them and bring the price down, but it isn't a complete replacement.

UMA connects to more wifi connections than SIP does. Because it is still relatively obsure, it is not received the same attention from folks working on blocking technology. From what I've seen watching this forum, most of us have gravitated towards VOIP and use it where it is available. Many of us now run our own call forwarding service abroad. I use naked DIDs and Voicetrading accounts. I have softphones and have a client on my E65 and E71. Version 2.0 will offer a conditional divert to my mobile stopping at my VOIP connection if available.

TMobile (IMHO) opinion had the perfect roaming device and shot themselves in the foot. We dropped TMobile's Blackberry International Plan when they changed the way they interpreted the contract. Because my wife pulls e-mail from to Exchange servers, only one could go on BES. The other was coming in using a program called Astrasync which is an Activesync clone for Blackberry. We got a $500 roaming bill for data because of this. I got the charged reversed, but jump ship for ATT's international Blackberry plan which includes all on device data. This is a data only device. The device was a Tmobile blackberry and she can SIM swap to get a connection via Tmobile, but ATT doesn't support UMA.

My wife still has Tmobile for voice with an UMA compatible handset, but the Blackberry is the only UMA phone that works well in a hotspot that requires a browser to log on. As you know from HoFo, I keep on hoping that someone will make a working VOIP client for Blackberry, but it is not in the cards.

In Europe, in room wifi can easily run you 20 Euros. I've even seen 30. If you are going to buy the net, you might as well make the free calls, but if you pop down 20 euros just to make the calls, the economics change. I'm taking a Baltic cruise in two months, cruise ship internet is real pricey, but excluding Russia (I'm in free incoming territory), I've got routes to UK mobiles down to $0.07 a minute incoming at the moment. The cruise ship's internet is probably satellite (the ship respositions around the world -- it doesn't just do the Baltic run). I think I am better with prepaid. If Three continues its "Three Like Home" offer, I should be able to have 3g data on my notebook in Denmark and Sweden for 10 quid total.

I know that you and Newcomb have stayed with Tmobile's grandfathered old roaming rates., I ditched them when I could no longer get a straight quote about what roaming was in a particular country on a particular network. In Kuwait, one network was a $1.50 incoming while the other network was $7.50. I remembered that, but forgot which was which. They could not answer the question and I gave up after two hours with tech support. That was what made me give up. I switched to a roaming SIM. I'm bumbed about the failures this year and have lost roughly $200US to these failures, but I still think they are a good tool. I'm keeping the money I have on these SIMs very low, but I have a Geodessa and a Celtrek SIM right now.

In sum, I think VOIP is a great supplement to a roaming SIM or a local prepaid, but I'm not prepared to say they are no longer needed. We talked about your stay in Dubai and you were at an airport with free wifi and at the largest tech show in the Middle East. As I recall you forgot your travel router and couldn't connect in your hotel room. Ninety percent of that stay was in wired areas.

Comments on above.

1. I think intl. SIMS will have a place in the market for some time. I am really annoyed that high end hotels charge (a lot) for internet, while low and mid-level offer it for free. I assume that travelers who stay in such places (i rarely do), pay the fee so they can use their computer.


Not too many years ago, hotels charged small fortunes (especially overseas) if you used their phones for outgoing calls. Some still do, but I use my cell.

2. If T-M can make money charging me 29-31 cents for incoming calls in many countries, charging $1 is outrageous. I should point out that if I use T-M for outgoing, the price can be well over a dollar in most cases. By making use of call back service, my outgoing calls are about 37 cents.

3. More and more airports are offering free wifi. For frequent business travelers who have access to FFlier lounges, they almost all have free wifi. UMA works perfectly in those situations. I assume Skype (and Google Voice when they institute intl. calling) would work as well.

4. Stu - I am not as tech savy as you. What would a "VOIP Client" do? How much data does a voice call use in a minute?

...mike

I've heard of UMA but I'm wondering if you guys can help me out with some info:

1. Would use of UMA be fully automated when I'm in any WiFi hotspot? No need to enter any login details for that particular hotspot?

2. Wouldn't the use of UMA be costly if you happen to stroll out of a wifi range while you're in conversation and the call transfers over to a mobile network?

Stu, 3 Like Home is ending shortly. I haven't yet seen details of new tariffs, but I doubt call rates will be better, and I assume data was a large part of the reason to end it.

1. Under T-Mobile USA version - a UMA capable phone, when in the U.S., will automatically register on a wifi hotspot IF you have saved it in your phone. Once you leave that hotspot it will auto switch to a TM cell tower. IOW, you can go back and forth on the same call w.o. it dropping The first time you enter a wifi hotspot area you need to "scan for available networks". You pick one, and, if it isn't "open" will be prompted to enter the security code for that system. Once you do that and save the info, it will register automatically.
If you are overseas and leave the wifi area, the call will drop, because there is no u.S. TM cell signall to pick up.
The BB allows you to enter ID'sand PW's to register the same way you would register a computer.
The BB, and, i think, a couple other UMA capable phones, allow you to select your preferred method of connecting - Cell only, Cell preferred, wifi only, wifi preferred. When overseas set for wifi only so you don't accidentally make an expensive call via cell tower. i always "hard forward" all incoming to VM. If someone leaves a msg., I will get the vM waiting icon.


2. T-M will take all calls out of your pkg. of minutes - unless you pay $10/mo. for unlimited calling via UMA. Since I am on an unlimited plan at $50/mo., this is a non-issue. (TM, starting a few months ago, offered users who had been with them unlimited minutes for $50/mo. Additional lines on account, $40. The regular unlimited rate, like other carriers, is $100.) As mentioned above, the call will drop if you leave wifi and are not within range of a TM tower.


Using this overseas is like being on a U.S. cell tower. If you are in Paris and call a Paris number, you will be billed the high intl. calling rates you would pay if you were home. You need to use one of the many dial around services. I use "MyGlobalTalk' (division of Voicestick), which has an app for my BB and processes the outgoing intl. call automatically.


TM does not promote using UMA overseas (guess they feel they would lose money on their high roaming fees?) - but will, according to posts on HowardForums, take support calls on this.
I started using this more than 2 years ago and was a beta tester.

UMA is a VOIP protocol similar to SIP, IAX, and Skype's proprietary protocol. An UMA protocol will not bypass the login process on a hotspot. An UMA equipped Blackberry has a web browser that can navigate through them. Additionally, Boingo (a wifi consolidator) has a global roaming package for PDAs for US$8.95 a month. There is a public beta client for Boingo which you can download. The combination of this will give you free calling to the US in a number of places. It may also work with a similarly equipped Rogers device with "Home Zone" calling. I've heard conflicting information about whether Rogers bans foreign IP addresses from its range.

Orange UK has a similar service called "Unique" and they are about release a version of the HTC Touch for. Windows Mobile supports a client called Devicescape which can be preprogrammed to log on to a number of hotspots automatically. They have a similar program for the E-Series Nokia and the iPhone. Coupled with a number of programs (Fring, Pennytel, Truphone, etc) this also makes a powerful mobile VOIP device.

To Snidely, a SIP client is just a VOIP program for use with the SIP protocol. Eyebeam, XLite, Gizmo are examples of this. Additionally Fring supports it. You can set a conditional divert so that the if the program is online it rings, but if it is shut off the call bounces on to your international SIM saving even more money.

To Andy, note my disclaimer. I'm afraid that the new deal won't be as good as Three Like Home, but it still may be a better deal than cruise ship internet.

My ATT 3g Blackberry has included on device data and that has covered me in a number of places. I may be able to get buy with it and say half an hour of cruise ship internet for heavy downloads of an already edited mailbox. Additionally my hotels in Stockholm in Copenhagen are Boingo hotspots and my wife has diamond status which means we will probably have club status for free. There is usually free internet in the club. I don't want to discuss all my strategies in public forums but I've worked out a few.

I have an E61 with Fring. Given WiFi access I can talk on Skype, Google Voice, ICQ or Windows Messenger.
It's not all that ubiquitous. Maybe in your hotel room and some restaurants. What has changed is that people now look at cellular roaming more as a way to be contacted, receive SMS, etc. When you need to talk you wait until you have WiFi access and make calls for cheap.

This makes me remember something. Who else remembers going to an "International Call Center" to call home when traveling? If you never did this, you went to this office where there were a number of phone booths a cashier. You gave the cashier the number you wanted to call and were then assigned to a booth. After your call you paid the cashier. I actually did this as recently as 2003 but those were special circumstances.

Today we all expect to be able to call the other side of the globe for free. The world has gotten very small.

DR -
I agree that wifi (be it UMA, Skype, etc.) is best used for outgoing. I use BB email for incoming. It is a lot cheaper getting/sending email via BB (less than $1/day for unlimited email) than the cost of someone sending SMS to you or you sending SMS out.

When recently in Zambia, I could get BB email at a place along the Zambezi that had satellite internet. It was too slow and too much latency for a reliable UMA voice call. When connected, the voice quality was almost useless. The service, I was told, wasn't cheap. You pay the internet service provider by the mb. The cell system did not have BB service. There is cell service in areas that don't have electricity.
If I could have connected via UMA it probably would have used up a lot of the guys expensive data pkg.

If the E61 can make use of Skype as easily as you can use it on a computer - why don't more people roam that way? IF I read the Skype blogs correctly, it appears that an app. for BB's is on the way. Is using Skype on the E61 as easy as making a regular cell call?
I have never used Skype Out - which is what would be needed to make the app. useful on a cell phone.
It will be interesting to see what G does w. Google Voice. I have two G numbers, but only use them so I can have a local number in Miami to give out and one to use as an additional number to give out in the Bay Area. I gave up my landline a year ago and tsfrd. my 35 y.o. number to my TM cell.

...mike

UMA is an interesting techology, but I have not been able to try it. Can someone please advise a link to a list of providers who support UMA?

However, I believe in protocols that are open to anyone: SIP allows anyone to start their own service, interface whatever with whatever... This helps keeping end-user prices down as there will always be fierce competition, whereas with UMA you are bound to your own mobile provider.

What I see as a major problem with wifi SIP roaming is that free wifi hotspots are not that easy to find, and even if you find them, they might not work properly with SIP. They allow web browsing, some allow POP3 or IMAP mail retrieval. Some SIP providers therefore allow connection using TCP rather than UDP, and on ports like 80 (normally used by http)... Problem is sometimes not firewals, but multiple NAT-ting and other problems. I have never tried to use SIP via VPN, but I have heard people say that it can often help.

However, I see that many people now use Skype and other VoIP software on their laptops for making calls while abroad. Using their phones for this is not yet that frequent. It is partly because a relatively small portion of phones available today offer wifi and voip, and those that do are relatively expensive.

Fring's client will connect better to most SIP services than a raw SIP client. The same with Nimbuzz. I think they transcode your connection. I think it is proprietary to them and then SIP from them to your Asterisks box. Additionally, Gizmo5 will sell you an "OpenSky" connection for $20 per year which will allow you to put your Asterisks box on Skype.

The easiest way to try UMA is to buy a TMobile US prepaid SIM and UMA compatible phone. TMobile prepaid work on UMA. It is not a great deal for someone in Hungary, but won't break the bank if you are an experimenter.

I think this would be a great product for one of the roaming SIMs to offer. I don't know what the backend equipment costs, but UMA works well.

HKR - Go to umatoday.com to see a list of carriers that use UMA. I assume, if they wanted, they could prevent you from connecting to an IP outside your home country. Whether any carrier does - I don't know.

Stu and DRN - I look upon you two as the tech gurus here. Can I conclude that some (most?) smart phones, like Iphone and BlackBerry, are (theoretically) able to process voice calls via wifi connection as simply as making regular cell calls? If Blackberrys (Blackberries?) (and Iphones) can be made to do this, that alone would cover a large number of users.

I usually don't carry a computer any more when I travel because of the email features of the BB - which are very inexpensive.

Stu - I assume there is quite an investment in backend costs for UMA and would have to be installed by the underlying carrier in Estonia, Isle of Mann etc. If what I say about installing a Skype type app in a phone is feasible - that would be much easier to implement.

The supposed reason T-M made UMA available in the U.S. was to give users solid mobile service when at home - even if you lived in an area w. littlle or noo cell service. It also was a selling point to get users to ditch their landline since you can make unlimited UMA calls to anywhere in the U.S. for $10/mo.

...mike

Well, the phone must have WiFi first. I'm not sure what generalizations can be made. I thought that the E61 would do VPN but it turns out that the VPN is so difficult to configure that it is virtually useless. I don't know to what extent carriers go to cripple the phones they sell, even to the extent of disabling factory capabilities.
I'm not so sure it's that difficult. TruPhone does it with an app that logs you onto their SIP service. Once you are logged on they just route your calls via VOIP rather than forwarding to the cell. Now, as I understand it, this is less than UMA. UMA acts more as an alternate air interface. But the idea is that the MVNO can implement a system as an overlay without having to have access to the guts of the cellular switch.

N.B. I thought that Boingo Mobile might be a great way to augment my WiFi access overseas. It is pretty good but you have to take some things they say with a grain of salt. For instance, they list over 10,000 hotspots in Russia.
I started looking for hotspots in various cities. Turns out that something like 9,500 of that 10,000 are the nodes of the Moscow city-wide WiFi system. When you look in other cities, e.g. St. Petersburg, things get pretty slim. St. Petersburg list something like 5 hotels with Boingo Mobile service. Other than Moscow and St. Petersburg I couldn't find any Boingo Mobile hotspots. Bottom line is that I don't think you can really count on WiFi to be there when you need it.

If you are an American, also look at ATT's Premier wifi service which gives you access to the iPass roaming network for about half of rack rate.

Stu -
They haven't taken my passport - yet.
BTW - You seem to create economic disasters all over the world<G>. You list Detroit, and look what happened to that city, economically. In the past few months there have been several reports about Dubai having bad times.

I used to carry an ATT phone as a back up, but gave it up. The T-M phone, with occasional use of an intl. SIM seems to work for me.

...mike

Dubai and Detroit are "sister cities." I didn't know how true it was.

Now that you mention TruPhone... I have long been wondering why they are not forming a nice package of their VoIP service and their international SIM (Sim4Travel).


As for UMA: thanks for the ideas everybody. Well, for me there is indeed no point in buying a US T-Mobile SIM & phone, apart from experimentation.

During my last trip, 10 days in Japan a couple of months ago, I did the Skype thing. It was great -- but only when I had a good Internet connection, obviously. That was maybe 20% of the time at best. Yes, I could have had it more if I was willing to pay for it, perhaps up to 40% of the time. But mostly I relied on my int'l roaming SIMs (Celtrek and ekit, UM+ was dead).

So Skype/VOIP is a good, even great thing, but its not ready to supplant int't roaming SIMs yet in my view...