SaverSim and Wizz
 

A new international simcard :P

• Wizz SaverSIM

( http://www.wizzairsaversim.com/doc/price_comparison.pdf )

powered by SaverSim - Save up to 70% on mobile calls! :P

Prefix +44 7624 IoM

Unfortunately, this one is also with fair use policy in the terms.

:eek::eek::eek:

Ok, this is not for me... my ratio is 15:1 :rolleyes:

I have just looked at there outbound call charges, WOW - very expensive.
Also there call cost calculator is not showing any inbound charges!
Its the same sort of this like ekit. Cheep sims with high call charges and crazy t&c's

Call rates are ok in Europe, and most mobiles same as landlines. I haven't checked a lot yet but from USA to UK is €1.90 incl. VAT. You're right that not displaying incoming rates is a bit odd.

I don't think much of their contact phone numbers.

This 0844 costs 5 pence a minute from UK landlines, typically 20 or 25 pence from many UK mobiles. On its own that won't worry foreign callers of course, but perhaps this firm simply don't realise that it is difficult or impossible to call +44844 from a number of countries abroad, unless using a fairly small number of callthrough providers.

and 070 for a fax number? Bound to be seen in a poor light. 50 pence or more per minute from the UK. Two of the most prominent uses of +4470 numbers are in free advert newspapers and spammer/fraudsters diverting them to certain countries' mobiles.

All the answers you need!
 

Hi there all

let me respond to your issues raised here. I am one of the directors of SaverSIM who did the deal with Wizz Air to offer the Wizz SaverSIM.

1) General charges - ours are the lowest in the EU. Simple as that. It is just €0.28 (INC VAT) to call a landline or a mobile anywhere in the EU and Switzerland. SMS/Texts are a set low price of €0.38 (INC VAT) too! Outside of the EU we are generally 40-80% less (except in the US)
2) Inbound charges - it is totally free to receive calls in the EU, Switzerland, China, UAE, Australia, Egypt, Israel etc and every single one of our inbound charges are less than our competitors. There will be a PDF explaining which countries are free shortly AND the calculator will work it out automatically too within next few days. We are a new company and haven't finished everything yet!
3) Fair Use policy - this is exactly that. We cannot provide a service that makes us no money! BUT it doesn't mean after every 4 calls inbound you are charged for them, just that over a period of time if the inbound so heavily outweigh the outbound we have to charge. We had a customer who took 1500 inbound minutes for free and made 3 outbound! WE would go out of business if we allowed that.
4) We have customers all over the world - in over 35 countries - and this is because unlike may of our competitors we have NO subscriptions, no connection charges, no hidden charges at all and the money on the card doesn't expire. We want to be honest and provide a great service with no catches.
Please email me directly (rsampson@bruincommunications.com) if you have queries or post here!

Regards

Ross Sampson

Please check my reply on the site!

Hi Roscoe232,

you wrote:

... relax and take a deep breath, on your PDF sheet are prices shown in GBP 0,28 for outbound calls within Europe. The cost calculator shows the prices now in Euro with an amount of 0,24 without VAT.

To be honest that´s no big thing ... I do outbound calls within Europe to Europe for 0,0816 Euro including VAT to mobile numbers ... so relax. Most of the readers of this forum know the secrets of this market and your SMS prices are a rip of ... I do send SMS from my mobile to other mobiles worldwide for 0,018 Euro including VAT.

My two (U.S.) cents. Out going rates, at least from l1st world countries) seem to be quite reasonable.
Problem - as w. all other providers who offer IOM, Estonia, Lichtenstein etc. numbers, it is expensive to call a +4476 (IOM). From the U.S. it is 32 to 38 cents/min. via most lD carriers. There are a couple that charge the same rate as to a "regular" +44 mobile - about 22-25 cents/min. This is obviously a lot cheaper than calling Estonia or LIcht.
Since the outgoing rates are so reasonable, there would be no reason to think of using a callback service.

A question for Ross et al - it appears your company gets no part of the money generated for your underlying IOM carrier. These carriers should be willing to share in the profits generated by incoming calls. Obviously they don't, which is why you (and others) make sure outgoing calls are made.

Outside lst world countries this service is quite expensive - at least on outgoing calls. Incoming rates aren't posted yet.

...mike

Whun using service like voicetrading.com or future-nine.com calls to +4479 or 76 will only cost you $ 0.14 per minute on the premium route.

If you you want to make it your callers easyier, setup a did number an forward the calls to your +44 number. You will pay the $ 0.14 per minute forwarding cost and they can call you on a regular US number

It's nice to see another supplier here on the forum but again from his name it's not clear he is a supplier not is there a signature to say he is a supplier.

moderators / administrators please do something about this so it's clear for everyone who is a supplier. Not everyone want's to ready every post of a user to see if he is a user or supplier.

@ Roscoe232

11 Fair use Policy
Bruin Communications operates a fair usage policy for its Wizz SaverSIM® product in relation to inbound calls. If free inbound calls exceed paid for outbound calls by a ratio of 5 to 1 over a period of ???????then a charge of 10 eurocents per minute will apply to those inbound calls. If misuse continues to occur where the customer if making no outbound calls Bruin reserves the right to disconnect users.

I am missing the period here What period do you messure, 1 month, 2 month, 3 month. Please be clear about this. In your previous post you say a period of time which is a non-statement as it does not say anything.

Fair Use policy - this is exactly that. We cannot provide a service that makes us no money! BUT it doesn't mean after every 4 calls inbound you are charged for them, just that over a period of time if the inbound so heavily outweigh the outbound we have to charge. We had a customer who took 1500 inbound minutes for free and made 3 outbound! WE would go out of business if we allowed that.

I get your point but again your are not very clear and this statement has no value whatsoever. Your terms state 5 to 1 and here you give an example of a user having 1500 minutes. Minutes is something different than calls. So what ratio do you monitor minutes or calls.

Say I have 50 inbound calls each 60 minutes = 3000 minutes but I make 12 outbound calls of just 1 minute. The ration inbound outbound calls is still 50:12 = 5:1 but minutewise it's 3000 : 12 = 1:250

Again you created misunderstanding on how you monitor.

By giving comments like this you are giving reader here an impressions that you might be flexible about the ratio but you give no idea on how flexible. Also your terms state 5:1 so whenever you want you can always refer to these and say a user has 80 inbound en 10 outbound you can disconnect him. Or do you monitor minutes in combination with calls ?

Than if you do disconnect you also take away the credit. This is something I really don't like as it's money the user has paid and you just take it away.

Bbob -
I think all carriers have what is commonly called a "fair use clause". Eg. Most carriers will terminate you (i mean terminate your service<G>) if much of your use is off teir own network and you are roaming a lot on another carrier. They don't state hard and fast rules.
I thought Ross made it clear he represents/sells the service in question.

...mike

Mike, you might think it's common but lots of other carriers don't have this clause !

The fact that there are rules written down in the terms state that there are rules. It's posted here that they are flexible about that, but legally a statement like that does not mean anything as they can shut you down based on their terms.
My point is that they should be clear as fair use means something for you and might mean something different for me. Some provider do have limits so write them down and don't say you are flexible about these limits because that means that you give the impression there are other limits. Just as simple as that.
In this thread there is written down a limit which according to the supplier is not really a limit, at least he gives that impression. Also the limit is unclear about the time period in which they measure this limit.
I like companies that are clear about terms and limits. As a user you know what the limit is (if there is any) and there is no dicussion.
Being unclear will only give reason for a discussion, like now ;-)

As for Ross making it clear he represents/sells the serivce yes he does but as I said when he would post another thread or now in this thread no one than knows he is a supplier unless they read all his posts.

I keep repeating myself, it should be clear to everyone who is a user and who is a supplier. Users should not have to read every post from a user to find out he is a supplier. Either his/her username should have part of his companyname or in his/her signature there should be a reference to the company. This is easy and makes clear to everyone who is who.

Some examples, I have seen a username cloud9, easyroam, yackie and so on. It's clear that these users are suppliers.

As someone who knows Ross i can 100% confirm that as he states he is one of the company directors behind the service. Why on earth would he state that if not true?

In relation to an exhorbitant ratio of inbound to outbound calls i am i total agreement. They (and indeed no one) earns any profit from free inbound calls. They are offered as the USP of the Global SIMs and grant discounted outbound calls in many destinations compared to normal MNOs.

As someone who has never posted before i have read this forum for a few years. I have seen open boasting of 50/1 inbound to outbound calls. Terms and Conditions are there for a reason and this type of customer is not wanted by any suppliers as they present zero profit margin for all and a loss for others.

John

John you are right and I would not doubt if Ross is of the directors. I only point out that it should be clear who is a supplier and who not. This should be enforced by the admin and mods here. So this comment is more meant towards the admin en mod here that once and for all they do something to seperate users and suppliers.

As for inbound outbound ratio, if those are the rules those are the rules but be clear about thim. I repeat myself in the terms it's mentioned period of time, just specify that what period of time.

You own words are "Terms are there for a reason" Again I repeat myself, if the terms state 5:1 ratio over a period of time than don't give the impression that you are flexible about that ratio.

Make clear statements about ratio, period of time etc.

Bbob - Agree that his name and/or sig line should indicate his connection w. the company. I should have realized you weren't in the U.S. when I made the "fair use" comment.
"Fair use" has been a common clause in many areas here, forever. Eg. Landline companies put in that clause decades ago to prevent users from installing equipment that could compromise the system. Internet providers have long put that in to prevent a user from "over using" system resources 24/7. ATT, T-Mobile and some smaller GSM carriers all have roaming agreements with each other. Roaming is limited to areas your native carrier doesn't cover. They all have clauses that if you are using a disproportionate amount of your minutes off your home carrier's network they can terminate your service. This is rarely done, but there have been posts on various forums where it has happened.

John247 - Welcome to the forum.
You are wrong in your statement that no one makes money on incoming calls. The IOM provider that is used in this case is cleaning up. I have always assumed that the LARGE termination costs imposed by virtually all carriers outside the U.S., Canada and a few other countries all go to the carriers. Somebody can correct me if i'm wrong. As I mentioned above, it would be more fair if they shared some of that largess w. "resellers" like you. Unfortunately they don't.
We in the U.S. are spoiled in that it costs no more to call a cell phone than a landline. We can get unlimited calling, incoming/outgoing for under $100/mo. T-Mobile includes unlimited SMS w. that. Discount carriers that only cover limited geographical areas charge $40/mo. for unlimited voice. An ever increasing number of Americans have given up their landlines. You "foreigners" couldn't do this.
The fact that overseas cell carriers charge 10 times (or more) than a landline to terminate a call seems outrageous to most Americans.
I should mention extra charges for long distance within the U.S. have all but disappeared.
End of rant.

...mike

Mike,

Thanks for the welcome to the forum.

You state that "The IOM carrier is cleaning up". In callback do you realise how expensive the A leg can be? Check the best termination you can find to a Bulgarian mobile for instance. Most callback operators offer free inbound in Europe and beyond and in some instances a small profit is made on inbound (if called in peak times). I have used Bulgaria as an example and with all inbound calls nobody meakes a bean of profit and some organisations take a big loss hit.

Add on top of that unconnected B legs where the callback operator still has to pick up the bill for the expensive connected A leg.

Take all of this into account and please understand why i and others take dislike to inviduals who totally abuse the system.

Thanks

John

Hi John,
i can 100% understand your position.
The problem i have with many providers is that they put a huge sign "FREE INCOMING IN XXX COUNTRIES" on the website -- and a limitation ratio or whatever in the smallprint of the smallprint in the imprint.

Free incoming is free incoming. No matter if 1 minute or 10000 minutes.
Otherwise you can write "100 free incoming minutes per month" or "5 free incoming minutes for every minute of outgoing calls" or something like that.

The same discussion was here with internet providers who offer a data FLAT RATE but start to whine if a user uses 500 GB a month. These now have to name it "fair use flatrate" and quote the traffic cap clearly on the 1st page of the offer.

Chris

Why not offer a direct toll bypass system for your customers over IP?!

I've asked several international MVNOs for an IP based (SIP, H.323 etc) termination mechanism where I would pay them for the incoming calls rather than my long distance carrier. Quite a few of un on this forum run our own little IP PBX where we forward a national DID to one of the Betamax brand carriers.

This is just my two cents of the day.

John -
Explain to this dense person what happens to the money the IOM carrier collects when a caller dials your IOM number? I am sure the amount that is collected is more than enough (with a sizable profit margin) to deliver the call to Bulgaria et al. If the country called is a "high price termination country" (Cuba is an example) the price charged by the IOM carrier - or any other carrier - is much higher.
All carriers have a rate chart of what it costs you to receive calls in various countries. Normally it is based on their actual costs - other times it is based on what they think they can gouge.
A prime example is Costa Rica. Costa Rica has somewhat low termination when dialing both landline and cellular. Most cell carriers charge $2/min. or more when the cost to terminate to both landline and cell is about 5 cents.

Eg. T-Mobile U.S. (actually its forerunners) 10 years ago charged 29 cents LD charge to call most first world countries (both landline and cell). They also charged 29 cents a min. for incoming when roaming in those countries. About 3 years ago they more than tripled the roaming charge to 99 cents. LD calling to those countries was raised to 69 cents/min. - altho you can pay $5/mo. to get discounted rates of 6 to 9 cents.

Since Bulgaria is a high cost termination country, i'm sure it costs an IOM user more to to roam (and get an incoming call) in Bulgaria than France. As a reseller of IOM service you should be charging more. However, the IOM carrier keeps all that money. That's what isn't fair.


...mike

I must say that I agree with Bbob in regard to the need to state exactly the rules for the free incoming calls. They should be very clearly stated in the rules and not be flexible. The company can set a rule known to everyone and then, if the company decides, they can be flexible on that and not terminate a sim when a customer violates the rule. But there must be a rule.

In regard to th reseller part of bbob comment I think that a signature is enough to show the affiliation of a pgsm member.

I can only agree with you. Free is Free and unlimited is unlimited, fair use = never unlimited. If you advertise free incoming and there is a limit, it should be on the same page saying there is a limit and not in the small print. But this is marketing or is it really misinforming people as many don't read the small print ?

I see the same thing here for internet products, they advertise unlimited and the small print says free use. Take a dictionary, unlimited is unlimited and nothing else. Fair use is something completely different.

Fair use is also a nice marketing tools as it does not say anything. What is fair use and who decides what that is. 1 thing is for sure, not the customers and he nevers really knows what the seller means whith fair use. Fair use only creates discussions.
I don't think that most user have no problems if there are any limitations, say 200 gb per month for internet should be more than enough for 98% of the users. The same for other services.

If you must keep lecturing us about how expensive our phone systems are, at least get some information a bit more in proportion

For some countries, a large chunk of the termination fees is taxation. As complaints on other forums show, rates to Pakistan have jumped significantly upwards twice in the last few months.

But perhaps many rates are not quite as high as you think. The wholesale termination rate to most UK mobiles is said to be just over 5p and is heading down to 4p within 2 years (that might be plus VAT). If your provider charges 22 or 30 cents, perhaps your complaint should be re-aimed.

I'm sorry to hear that your unlimited packages are so expensive [are they truly unlimited, or with a fair use policy?] I have 650 minutes a month, 500 sms, free internet access in UK, free incoming and 25p outgoing roaming in Europe (1000 minutes fair use policy on this bit). That's £20 a month; if I'd wanted 1200 minutes it could be £27. Without a new phone every 18 months save another £150, so rates could average under 2p. And that includes calls to IoM and Jersey global SIMs ...

Some business contracts now have international calls (dialled from home country) in the inclusive minutes. Can any American call international including European mobiles from their minutes? Your T-mobile has put its international calls up from 29 to 69 cents. My O2 is still 17p to many, including European mobiles, and can call forward at that, so was always one possible route to cheaper mobile calls when abroad even before the advent of global SIMs and the Eurotariff.

But we're mostly trying to consider prepaid on here, of course, instead of boring each other with contracts. The cheapest UK prepaid mvno rates to all UK mobiles are 8 and 9p a minute; they don't need the equivalent of $100 added to get the best rates, or to stay valid longer than a month or two, and don't use credit for incoming calls. So it's just about possible they might be better value than prepaid US SIMs. You may be telling UK customers they're being ripped off, but perhaps they won't agree.

Some mvno and main network prepaid brands here have European mobiles from 10p. USA is from 2p to 5p on at least half a dozen or probably closer to ten brands. Do you have any US brands with 3 cent rates to UK, not an extra cost for separate callthrough, but the total direct-dialled tariff?



Back a bit closer to the way this topic has developed: if main networks such as O2 and Wind can equal or undercut global roaming SIM rates in Europe, even specifically Bulgaria a mentioned, would they be actually losing money?

As for the outbreak of providers' accusations of unfair use by customers, and difficulty earning anything from some of them, I can receive calls free on my UK phone in for example Germany, its outgoing rates are cheaper than most global SIMs including this one, or I could make outgoing local and int'l calls for 8 or 9 cents using a German SIM. So I don't seem to need a global SIM there at the moment, but others might have forwarded incoming calls to theirs and have a local one as well.

Vodafone has had its Passport scheme for a while now, which lets its contract customers use their inclusive minutes while abroad, plus just a connection fee. Lots of short calls would be painful, but a one-hour received one would still be only 75p for UK Vodafone, and the caller if also on Vodafone might have only 3 minutes off their monthly allowance if calling off-peak. 2 x O2 UK prepaid SIMs can have 1000 minutes of calls a month from one at home to the other roaming in Europe for £15 between them. Are they really throwing money away? Global SIM providers might reckon they don't want these customers, but one wonders why the main networks would make these offers.

Perhaps the global SIMs and the main networks could still find ways of making their outgoing roaming rates a bit closer to indigenous ones. It shouldn't be so difficult; Orange UK was managing it over 10 years ago (e.g. about 3 or 5p within or home from Hong Kong or Singapore), before it joined the club of increasing roaming rates; back then, their calls home from Belgium or France were actually slightly cheaper than extra calls within the UK.

Maybe someday, maybe soon, instead of just development rumours and hopes, someone will actually launch a multi-ID SIM with cheaper rates based on it being local in a few or plenty of countries. But they need to be well chosen. Someone said to me months ago that in theory 100 IDs can be on one SIM; the trouble with this is that it might take 20 or 30 minutes to register on a network.

It's like you say and normal provider do seem to make money somehow even at low rates.

So you would aks yourself is it really needed to put in crazy ratio's in term ?
When offering free incomming sure there will alsways be users that use it more compared to other ones. Like any business you have products that make lots of money but you also have lots that make little money. If a supermarket would take out all the products they make little money on or just a bit it would get really empty. They need those products also so customers will buy the more profitable ones.

The same with ratios. By having them you scare away customers that might nog even go over these ratio's. On the other hand you will have customers that will go over it if you don't have them. The trick is to have just a few of these customers and the rest will compensate for the few.

But by choosing ratio's and crazy terms you scare away customers that would normally not go over these ratio's but just because they are there the might not choose your service.

Everything changes over time...many years ago somebody showed me a computer system they were buying and if they were getting a good deal. I told them yes and they bought the system. Well of course you know what happened, six months later the system was almost junk and my friend almost never talked to me again. Trust me at the time it was a good buy but time and technology and whatever march on.

The US cell system developed in a sort of erratic manner. I remember my first cell phone...it was large and bulky and analogue (sp.)...I had a very local calling area in the New York City area (it included metropolitan NJ and Long Island larger than NY Telephone was providing) but I had something like 30 minutes a month, was charged very high rates for any calls outside my local calling area and when I roamed outside my home area, forget it...

Then Sprint began advertising national long distance at no extra charge and no roaming fees wherever they operated. In other words I was ecstatic, I could receive calls in Los Angeles at the same rate as receiving calls at home. Within six months, every carrier had to have those features to remain competitive. Today, it is almost taken for granted on US cell plans there are no local calling areas, all calls within the USA cost the same and come out of minutes and you can roam almost at will throughout the USA.

In similar manners, European mobile service developed with some slightly different concepts. As I understand it, one of the first decisions was to go with GSM as people were constantly going from one country to another and roaming rates were frightfully high so the ability to simply change sim cards was almost a necessity in Europe given the size of most of the countries. We also had the idea prevelent with European mobile companies that caller pays so receiving calls while not roaming again became almost a given and the idea of paying a termination fee to call a mobile phone well that was the accepted way it was just like in the USA it is accepted that you pay to receive calls out of your minutes, as large as they may be, and therefore nobody is charged a surcharge to call a mobile phone....it also meant that mobile numbers remained indistinguishable from landline numbers...area code+xxx xxxx so that today if you are in Europe and call the number +1212 555 1212, you have no idea of just whether or not it's to a mobile, pager, or land line. So therefore even though it's possible, calls to USA numbers for the most part cost the same whether it is to a landline or a cell phone or a pager....(just mention my only complaint with the North American telcom system is there is no way unless you have memorized all the area code to tell whether you are calling a USA number or a Canadian number and of course unless you pay extra up front, calls from USA mobiles to Canadian numbers do not come out of inclusive minutes and long distance charges apply but I stray off topic).

Now, as I've read it, one of Ms. Redding's point about this whole eu tariff bit is that it should be the same throughout the eu as it is in the United States at least as far as roaming is concered. In her world of the future, receiving calls will be free on eu mobile throughuot the eu. She's gotten it down to what, 0,24€ per minute and I think it is scheduled to drop further. This has come despite the resitance of the European telcoms who knew a cash cow when they saw it. It has also helped lead to some of the reduced tariffs some comapnies such as O2 UK have introduced to avoid further reductions in rates imposed by the eu.

This has no doubt cut down on the viability of some of the international sim cards. O9 has apparently already gone under. They were great for me last summer as their inbound rate with my call through ld carrier (enlinea) was something like 16¢ US from most anywhere in Europe to the USA. I used them constantly, every so often made a call through their naitive service just to make sure I kept the account active. Was I cheating them? Did I help cause their demise? (Enlinea was great on this one...they gave me a US toll free number to give my friends which went to the sim at the above noted 16¢/minute rate) I never gave it a second thought that I was "cheating".

The point is nobody knows what's coming next. Obvious 3g and 4g will change things although, at least for pure voice communications, I do think 2g GSM will be around for a while. But obviously the era of real cheap calls via the international sim are fast coming to an end.

It's too bad...it was great while it lasted.

Follow-up on Discussion
 

Hello again all ( and yes for those who didnt read my FIRST line last time I AM a director of SaverSIM!)

Its always nice to see some debate - even with various levels of expertise and intelligence behind it! :)

We havent tried to deceive anyone and the actual wording on the site is this:

11 Fair use Policy
Bruin Communications operates a fair usage policy for its Wizz SaverSIM® product in relation to inbound calls. If free inbound calls exceed paid for outbound calls by a ratio of 5 to 1 over a period of a month then a charge of 10 eurocents per minute will apply to those inbound calls. If misuse continues to occur where the customer if making no outbound calls Bruin reserves the right to disconnect users.

I think some people need to refresh their browsers and delete their cache as the copy being referred to was changed some while ago.

We stand by our service and have many many happy customers all over the globe made up of corporates and individuals and we also stand by the fact that compared to other Roaming SIMS - ie not some voip service, or other prefix dialling service which may well be cheaper - ours offers the best calling rates rates and best other services too. Call forwarding, for example, is FREE with us in most countries too!

Not everything can be free - so we offer the best deal we can and leave it to the customers to decide.

And to be picked up on a pdf that has a slightly different price than the calculator is - well - lets just say pernickety! I am sure you have all been wacthing the news recently and realise the massive fluctuations in currency that have occured with the dollar, the Euro and especially the pound. It is therefore impossible to keep printed material up to date - even pdfs - or we would literally be changing them every day!

The call calculator, however, converts LIVE and accurately and is therefore the one to trust!

As ever in life you must make your own choices and I trust whichever roaming service you choose - ours or someone elses - you'll be happy with the service and it will make, in some small way, your life better!

Stay safe and well all and just for those people who dont read the beginnings of postings: :)

Ross Samposn
Director
Bruin Communications Ltd - provider of the SaverSIM.

@ Roscoe232

... all I read is yadah, yadah and yadah.

You are hooked up on the old Callkey websites and you do praise your product like there is no other, that´s to much glitter for my taste. Haven´t you enough money to build your own website?

And why can´t you keep your PDF´s on an actual level? To much work? Oh, please ...

Come on, your prices are sh.t. So lets have a look how long you will stay in the market ... :p

Reply to Andy's post above -
I enjoy this (and other forums) to learn and share ideas.
Thanks for reminding me that a lot of countries impose HIGH taxes on incoming intl. phone calls. I forgot that.
I had assumed that since virtually every LD carrier charges at least 20 cents to call most overseas mobiles (the UK is a few cents more than most of Europe) that the carrier handling the incoming call imposed the charge. These same carries charge 3-5 cents to call a landline - so this is a reasonable assumption. The fact LD carriers world wide all charge very HIGH fees to call +372 and +423 numbers would indicate that it is the carriers on the receiving end collecting the money.
What does it cost you, from a landline, to call a mobile in France or Germany?
My main point was that IOM termination is slightly higher than main UK numbers. Whatever amount that may be - wouldn't it be fair for the IOM carrier to share some of that money w. the resellers of their service?

...mike

In regard to Uk mobiles I think that there is not a certain ammount everyone is paying for calls terminating to certain prefixes. For example calls to Jersey mobiles are higher even within the Uk (07937 prefix). Also calls to 07924, 07937 numbers are higher from abroad in many cases (not all of course). In Greece the Greek Telecom organization is charging 0,70 euros/min to terminate to those prefixes (whereas for o2 charges 0,3/min). When I have oficially (in written form) asked them about this they have answered that this is due to higher termination rates imposed on them by the British networks. So I assume this charges have to do with specific routing being used
Not to mention +423663 numbers. The Greek telecom organisation charges 2 euros/min to connect to those!!

What they tell you isn't always the truth. For them it might be a political decision to raise prices to these numbers. Why can other countries have lower rates than the ones in greece. 2 euro seem like crazy and even 70 cents is a to high rate. I think it's more their decision to raise prices.

If termination would be that high other carriers would be loosing massive amounts of money.

It always depend on the route used (premium or other). Premium routes tend to cost higher. Also the Greek T.O. does not use voip but standard pstn lines, which are more expensive.
I have also noticed that UK voip carriers charge more for calls to Jersey mobiles (07937 prefix)

Saver SIM, Bruin Communications belly up?
 

Happy New Year, all!

Sorry to bring up an old thread that looked dead but inquiring mind wants to know.

I had suscribed to Saver SIM through Wizzair.

The first SIM I received had problems and Bruin Communication site could not reckon my card number.
I was told a new card was sent, the first one cancelled and the credit trasnferred.
I never received anything and my mails are unanswered.

Did Bruin Communications go belly up like so many with a site still online?

I feel that the service should be priced to allow the provider to make a profit no matter how it is used. Every CPP (i.e. "Free incoming") phone/SIM I've owned never had such restrictions, so I assumed that they made money no matter how you used it. Service providers should not promote their services based on a feature they don't want you to use.

Telna Mobile did have a SIP feature, but it was not a CPP SIM.