Canada: US person to Canada for a Plan (Monthly vs Pre paid) Fido?or others? Costly!
 

Gentlemen/Ladies:

i'm a US person going to Canada for 12 days soon, in about 9 days. i will carry my tmobile blackberry pearl 8100 and use it ONLY for emailing (will do a "all call forwarding" so my phone won't ring and incur any international roaming charges); and bring a 2nd phone, an HTC quad band for voice.

i'll need to purchase a SIM in canada and get a plan: either a pre paid or a monthly. the monthly plans should be ok because the Fido cancellation policy is 15 days and i'll be there for 12 days, so i can in theory get a Fido monthly and use it and cancel in time. BIG PROBLEM: they are now telling me that i must have CANADIAN ID cards and social insurance cards and what not in order to sign up for a monthly plan! mind you, there's nothing devious here: i'll be spending roughly $110 for a monthly plus the sim card with Fido, IF they allow me to sign up. for 12 days, that's quite a lot of money to fork over to Fido. their pre paid is VERY costly so it's only good as a back up plan if the monthly really doesn't work.

any ideas on whether they really are that strict?

FYI: most of my calls will be from Canada back to the US using Onesuite.com, either with their "local access number" where they have them (i.e. Vancouver and Calgary), but in certain places that are a bit more remote, like Jasper, i'll have to use their "866" number). So i'll need a LOT of local minutes.

for international long distance calling from Canada to the US, i'm fine: ok, i'm very fine with Onesuite.com now. i've tried it at "home" (usa) on both my land and cell and it works like a charm - probably the best discounted international long distance "calling card" i've ever used. high tech and easy to use once you set it up.

BIG PROBLEM: i've looked at Fido to get a Canadian SIM and a plan (there are 2 options: Pre paid and Monthly). the pre paid is VERY expensive on a per min basis so that's not good. the monthly is better, BUT THEY TOLD ME ON THE PHONE THAT THEY REQUIRE PROOF OF CANADIAN RESIDENCY and various other types of Canadian ID cards that i obviously don't have. please note that there is NOTHING at all devious going on here!! i'm a traveler going with my family from the USA to Canada to see the great outdoors and the mountains and water!

i can't get an international student card because i'm not a student.

i CAN opt for the online billing but it only is an option AFTER you get your monthly account.

ugh. how do i get a monthly plan then? btw, since i'll only be in Canada for 12 days, the cancellation period is 15 days so i can cancel before i leave.

any advice would be most appreciated!

thank you in advance.

PS: thx "Mike" aka Snidely for the advice on Onesuite.com. it is good. that solves the international long distance part of the equation but now, i have to have a SIM card and a plan!! i'll bring my own 2 phones: tmobile blackberry pearl 8100, and an unlocked quad band HTC phone. i'll only use the blackberry for the emails. the HTC quad band phone will be for voice.

Fido prepaid lets you have unlimited incoming calls for $1 a day, and unlimited evenings and weekends for $1 a day. If you can get people to call you (you could forward a US VoIP number like GrandCentral if they have to pay heavy rates to Canadian numbers), that might work out really well for you and you might not even need the unlimited evenings and weekends.

I don't think it's very ethical to sign up for postpaid service for 12 days when you have no intention of maintaining it. I also don't think that it's likely that you'll get service unless you have a Canadian mailing address and a Canadian credit history.

ebay
 

There are some FIDO or Rogers prepaid cards on eBay. I see no restriction on activation by non-Canadians. You could email the sellers.

Agree it would be dishonest to sign up for monthly plan.

Stan

just went on ebay to look. thx gentlemen/ladies for your pointers.

btw, i am not sure how "dishonest" it would be to sign up for a monthly plan on Fido/Rogers.

i'd be spending around $120 for 12 days or so, maybe 13 days. that's a lot more than the average subscriber.

i break no rules, promised nothing out of the ordinary, and is trying to find the best option for us when we tour Canada to enjoy the glorious view/fresh air!

it's not like i told them that i'd sign up for 2 years and then go away. there are no requirements that i tell them up front, as long as it's within the first 14 days or so.

the ebay ones are hard to read...one can never or rarely tell if they are for real or opportunists, right? i'd like to believe in the best of human nature - that they are honest business people.

i'll be making mostly outgoing calls back to the US with my calling card using either their local access number or their 866 number.

thx to Mr. or Ms. Snidely for recommending that!

my thinking is that since i'd be spending roughly $120 for 12 days, i'm by far a better revenue generator than their typical client!! there's nothing "devious" or "dishonest" about this. i never promised that i'd be a customer for 2 years, and i adhere to their rule of 15 days for cancellations very carefully.

it's sort of a "win win" situation, in that they make a very healthy margin on me with greater than $120 for my 12 days in canada, and i get to use their monthly plan and get to cancel prior to the 15-day cancellation period.

any further thoughts/advice would be most appreciated.

prepaid
 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fido-Prepaid-Num...QQcmdZViewItem

The seller has 98% satisfaction rate on over 9000 transactions & ships worldwide. It's a PREPAID card that you can probably pick up for $20 with shipping included (price is 64 cents now) and closes in 12 hours. If I wanted the card, I would not hesitate to bid on that one. If you pay by credit card, you can always use that a leverage.

I am sure there are other offers out there.

Stan

As a US citizen with a Fido card, I agree that ebay for a prepaid sim is probably the way to go. A few thoughts:
1. On the T-Mobile call forward for your BlackBerry, you may want to exchange an email with T-Mo just to confirm in writing you won't get charged for call forwarding to Canada while the phone is switched on.
2. If you go the Fido sim card route, remember you may need to change your WAP/GPRS/MMS settings temporarily on your HTC if you want to use this as a data backup for your Blackberry (see the faq section of Fido on http://www.howardforums.com for details on this). Fido prepaid has roaming in the US as of a week ago (data rate same as Canada, but voice a pricey C$2.50/min so wouldn't recommend using voice other than maybe a one minute test call-out or call-in) so you can test your phone in the US. You can also setup your voicemail box from the US by calling a Fido VM access number for the area your sim chip is set up for.
3. Have you considered an iDen Blackberry for Canadian data? You would need a cheap used Nextel blackberry handset off ebay. Roaming is possible on a Boost/Nextel prepaid sim chip on the Canadian Telus network (mostly CDMA but some iDen Mike coverage). Cost is only 35 cents a day for unlimited web service. PTT service also available but incoming/outgoing calls not allowed in Canada, so you would still need the HTC on a Fido chip for voice.
4. Free or fee wifi available in many major cities in Canada. Bring a subnotebook or wifi device if your Blackberry or HTC doesn't have wifi capabilities? Wifi is generally cheaper for data and sometimes faster than GPRS.
5. If going Fido prepaid, this can be refilled by voucher from your handset or by calling a 1-800 number (both free calls in the US and Canada). You can't use credit card refill unless you have a credit card drawn on a Canadian bank (unless buying indirectly from a Fido reseller).

Ken: this is GREAT info, very helpful sir!

following up: i plan to do mostly calls back to the USA as i do not know many people in canada. i was told about Onesuite.com and have tried it here in the US both using a landline as well as my cell, works well.

i'll be calling either a "local access number" only available for Vancouver, or, in the case of the Calgary/Banff/Jasper/Lake Louise area, their Canadian 866 number. i was informed that calling the 866 number means that i'll be charged a typical "local call rate", and calling the Vancouver local access number means that it's just a local call. that makes it sound like i need a LOT of local minutes as well as unlimited nights/weekends to "help out" my pre paid plan since it's so expensive.

additionally, i was warned by a Fido dealer that if i were to get a Vancouver area code, every call i make when i'm in the Calgary/banff/lake louise/Jasper area would incur a HEFTY canadian long distance charge!! YIKES.

this seems awfully complicated. is that dealer correct?

i'm now thoroughly confused.

help? ladies and gentlemen?

btw, i'd be more than happy to email / call you kind folks directly to clear this up. i only have a few days to set this up properly.

thanks so much!

Canadian cellular service doesn't include free long distance, unfortunately (with a handful of exceptions). You will pay toll if you receive a call outside the local calling area of your phone number.

I suspect this will gradually change, but not in time for your arrival.

The Fido prepaid long distance charge within Canada or to the US is C$.30/minute. Best to use a calling card or callback service to get around this if you intend to make many calls.

See the prepaid part of the Fido website at http://www.fido.ca/portal/en/packages/prepaid.shtml for lots of information on their service.

i've discovered a big problem: as i'll be in vancouver for 4 days, banff/lake louise/kananaskis for 4 days, and jasper for 2 days, that's 3 area codes.

i've just been told that if i were to choose, say the vancouver area code, then every single call i receive or make in calgary, including the 866 calls, would be considered a "canadian long distance call" and i'll have to pay an ADDITIONAL 30 cents or so ON TOP OF the 30 cents per minute: that makes it 60 cents per minute!!

what's with these canadian cell companies? there's something here that i'm not "getting". is it merely as simple as "lack of competition"? it seems like such an old fashioned system and it is like a monopoly/oligopoly.

yikes! sigh.

oh, btw, on top of everything else, there's the additional issue of when being in Jasper, granted, that's only 2 days out of the entire trip, it's on Fido's "extended network" which means another 30 cents PLUS the regular 30 cents for regular day time minutes, PLUS 30 cents for domestic long distance since i'm not in my "original area code" which would have been vancouver! that's a whopping 90 cents per minute!!

am i missing something or is the canadian cell phone system quite unusual?!? feeling pretty weird about this thing already...yikes!

Fido prepaid doesn't consider the "extended network" to be anything different than the normal network. This is only an issue for postpaid service, and only if you don't pay the $5/month fee for the extended network.

i see! that's good news.

what about bringing Rogers into the consideration equation? so far, i've only considered Fido. it seems to me that there's no reason to not think about Rogers as well.

now that Mr. PhotoJim has told me that the extended network is not an issue, i have to think about what to do with these 3 area codes!! i can't really justify buying 3 sim cards, of course, but would it make sense to buy 2 sims? one for vancouver and one for the calgary/banff/lake louise area code? then, the only 2 days that i'd be left without "local calling rates" would be the 2 nights in Jasper. of course, the cost/benefit of the additional cost of the 2nd sim card has to be considered.

again, most of my calls would seem likely to be initiated by me: calling my USA landline to check my answering machine, calling my tmobile USA voicemail (since that has a "all call forward unconditionally" set the day i leave the USA for Vancouver), and calling friends back. all of these calls would be either through a local access number or an 866 number for OneSuite.com's calling card service. so it seems that i'll need lots and lots of "local minutes".

i don't know how to get away from getting a vancouver area code, and then making calls from the calgary area code and not incur a 30 cent per minute surcharge due to it being "canadian long distance" outside of my "local vancouver area code".

this is so darn complicated!

PS: it's almost as though it would be smarter to just use my tmobile USA phone plan and just roam internationally in canada. the price is roughly 69 cents per minute. when you add the 30 cents plus the 30 cents 'outside of local area code' (say if i got a vancouver area code and making calls in calgary for 6 days), that would be 60 cents per minute PLUS my onesuite.com's international rates of 3.5 cents for calls from canada to the US!

that's 63.5 cents per minute!!

whew.

btw, any noticeable difference in reception between Fido and Rogers? all i know is that they are basically the same company now but i really don't know if one has better sound quality/reception in more areas, or are they basically the same?

thx!

The extra $0.30 long distance charge only applies to long distance calls. If you use the Onesuite toll free (or local to your phisical location) access number you only have to pay for airtime.

Your better option is 7-11 mobile. For $100 you get a basic phone (Nokia 1102) and a SIM prefilled with $105. Airtime rate is $0.20/minute.

VladS: thx for your advice. my follow up questions are:

1. Fido: why did they tell me that if i had a vancouver area code, if i'm in calgary, every 866 call is considered a "local call" and a local call in calgary means incurring canadian long distance since i'm no longer in vancouver? was the representative mistaken? please consider the fact that the majority of my calls will be initiated by me from canada to the US using my onesuite.com 866 access number. only in vancouver, i can use onesuite.com's vancouver local access number (they do not have local area code access numbers in calgary).

2. Fido: may i call to change my area code from vancouver to calgary when i go there? vancouver 4 days, calgary 4 days, jasper 2 days. charges for that? i cannot find it at all on their website. their reps are really not that helpful. i find their answers to be inconsistent.

3. Rogers: why not consider Rogers pay as you go plan? is rogers reception any better? their $1 per day has unlimited evenings starting at 6pm rather than the usual 8pm.

4. Rogers: they seem NOT to charge for changing area codes!!! am i mistaken? i read and re-read their info online, confusing. it is $10 to change your number online but seemingly free if you change your area code. website is so confusing.

5. 7 11: i'm confused why you mentioned that their $100 option is that great. i already have a quad band HTC phone that i'll be bringing to use. wouldn't that save me money by not going the 7 11 route and getting a new phone, however cheap that phone is? though $100 airtime is only $0.20 which is like 500 mins, that's quite a bit. what about canadian long distance when i move from vancouver to calgary? how does 7 11 handle that? they seem not to have much customer service/support at all!! concerned. they also don't have an unlimited evening option, which Rogers does have.

6. Sound /reception quality of Fido vs Rogers vs 7 11?? are they essentially the same? or is one better than another?


thanks in advance! looking forward to hearing your answers sir/madam.

1. If you have a Vancouver number, and you *receive* a call in Calgary, you pay toll. You will only pay long distance on outgoing calls if you call a long distance number (relative to Calgary). Calling Calgary, or toll-free numbers, will be local since you are in Calgary at the time.

2. You can change numbers. I'm sure there is a charge. I don't know what the charge is.

3. Rogers and Fido use the same network, so reception is identical.

4. I don't know.

5. I don't know.

6. There is only one GSM network in Canada, and it is Rogers' network. Any provider using GSM in Canada is using that network. All the other networks are CDMA, although only Rogers' covers every province. (The CDMA providers roam on each other to provide full national coverage.)

Thank you for the great info.

Upon doing more research with Rogers...they have a "first top up Double the refill" bonus deal now. so if i were to get a sim card for $25, and a top up for $40, i'll get in effect a top up for $80. so the net outlay is $65 (25+40) for $80 worth of time/minutes.

the most calls i'll do will be to an 866 number which would allow me to call the USA from Vancouver and/or Calgary/Jasper. there are 3 area codes involved: vancouver, calgary/banff/lake louise/kananaskis, and the 3rd one is Jasper.

i don't think it would be that useful for me to switch numbers since i'll be initiating most of the calls.

any other advise, gentlemen/ladies?

oh, btw, some Rogers stores want to CHARGE for activation! i would have to use 25 cents and go to a pay phone, maybe 100 feet from the store, and activate via an 800 number, in order to save $25 !! how odd is that?

ugh.

Slightly OT, perhaps, but 7-11 does offer 365-day expiration, with the caveat that they cut off your service if you don't use it for 120 days (and it doesn't offer roaming anywhere else to allow users outside Canada to keep it active).

Vlad, or anyone: Is there a workaround here, such as checking one's voice mail, that would keep 7-11 Mobile active during long stays outside Canada?

Petro-Canada is another theoretical option, but you can't just recharge it every 180 days using a foreign credit card (AFAIK) you need to enter the code available only at Petro-Canada service stations into the phone itself.

7-eleven and PetroCanada wireless resellers are actually run by the same ZTar outfit(same customer service center):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Eleve...k_Out_Wireless

7-eleven Canada official brochure:

http://www.7-eleven.com/products/doc...ochure_can.pdf

According to this unofficial blog, no US roaming yet with 7-Eleven Canada (although there is a US version that runs on Cingular/AT&T-GSMor Sprint-CDMA). :

http://www.speakoutwireless.ca/#number15a

This might change though, because the underlying Rogers/Fido prepaid network now allows US roaming(my prepaid Fido card works in the US).

In answer to the question on something to keep the 120 day useage going from outside of Canada(other than possibly roaming in the US in the future), it could be possible to leave a voicemail message for the cellphone, and then retrieve it from a landline (either the access number for voicemail or dialing your own cellphone without the sim chip in it and pressing #). Assuming a voicemail message even if the sim isn't live on a network would keep the 7-eleven sim chip alive.

Well, 50 cents (payphones have gone up in price here - hardly anyone uses them :) ), but I get your point. :)

To the good, smart folks here:

thank you all for being so incredible knowledgeable and helpful!

may i ask if this following course of action would make the most sense for someone who's vast majority of calls will be from the pay as you go cell to a onesuite.com 866 or local access number in order to call the USA?

Upon arrival in Vancouver, purchase from "Rogers Plus" store a Rogers SIM card ($25 with self activation, or add $15 for store assisted activation) and $40 of INITIAL TOP UP. the current "bonus" is a doubling of the initial top up value UP TO $40. Therefore, i will pay out of pocket $65 for $80 worth of calls.

$80 less 12 days at $1 per day leaves $68. $68 divided by $0.30/min = 226 Mins = roughly 3 Hours and 45 Mins of calls at 30 cents per min. (unlimited calls evenings and weekends, i'll have only 1 weekend in my 12 days there so effectively, my 3 Hours of calls will be apportioned over 12-2 = 10 days, that's only 22 mins per day). My fear is that as my itinerary is Vancouver 604/Calgary 403/Kananaskis 403/Lake Louise 403/Jasper780/Banff 403, it will get rather complicated.

changing area codes imply changing cell numbers. not changing area codes imply great cost when others call, right? though i do not expect to make many Canada to Canada calls as i do not know many people in Canada.

thanks!

?
 

Unless you plan on making lots and lots of calls on the cell phone, I would not invest in the top up right away. You can always add more time/money if needed.

You don't indicate if you are staying in hotels or with friends for the nights you are there. The onesuite card will work just fine from any phone in Canada. A hotel might charge for 800 access so you would use the cell. Or will you be camping and without access to a landline phone?

TRUE, it would be a pain, but you could ask your family or friends, the ones you wish to call back home, to call YOU in the hotel or where you are staying. Just give them a quick call and let them know your room #. I find 30 cents per minute a bit steep for calling the US on top of what onesuite will demand. If they used you onesuite # & pin to reach you in the hotel, that would be more economical.

When we were in Germany, our son called us a few times and that was at a lower rate than if we had called him. Wife insisted we call back home, however.

Bon voyage.

Stan

hello Mr or Ms snaimon:

thx for your posting. well, as my itinerary is Vancouver/Calgary/Kananaskis/Lake Louise/Jasper/Banff, the only sure place to be able to get a "voucher" to refill my prepaid is Vancouver! (we're not spending any time in calgary).

they do NOT allow using a US credit card to refill a prepaid sim phone card!

i really don't understand that!

i'm thinking that i'll do the $40 initial top up to take full advantage of the bonus double initial top up which has a maximum of up to $40 for the initial top up, so a $40 top up is equal to $80 in my prepaid account.

in Kananaskis / Lakie Louise / Jasper / Banff, there's no assurance that they will have the right kiosk/store that carry thiese vouchers and there's no assurance that i'll be near them! maybe i will be near them, maybe i won't.

this is quite complicated!! ugh!

I expect you'll be able to get vouchers in Banff, Jasper and Lake Louise. Most gas stations have them.

PhotoJim: thx for informing me that most gas stations have them. we'll be traveling on a "bus" that has a tour guide. we found a good tour operator that uses high quality buses and high quality hotels and people have gone on their trips and they are not "icky" at all, au contraire, they are very fine and of high quality.

having said that, i won't be "filling up" my gas tank!! so how would i find places to buy vouchers? it is EXTREMELY odd that in Canada, one is not allowed to top up and refill one's pay as you go cell phone via a US-issued credit card!! how can that be? it is SO inconvenient.

with $40 plus the "bonus" of $40 for my initial top up in Vancouver (4 nights), i'll have an idea when i arrive in Kananaskis on the 5th day how much i need.

A lot of companies won't accept foreign credit cards. They do this to limit credit card fraud. I can't use my Canadian credit cards to top up my UK O2 service either.

If you aren't in walking distance to gas stations from your hotel (and you ought to be), I imagine the concierge at your hotel can arrange to get a card on your behalf easily enough.

So...i checked with the hotels in kananaskis and lake louise in order to see how easy/difficult it would be to get these "vouchers" for topping up.

well...in kananaskis, it is 20 miles, yes, 20 miles (!) from the store that has it. we're there with a bus tour / motor coach tour, so we aren't that mobile. at lake louise, the nearest place is a Petrol Canada place, which i actually took the trouble to call. it's 3+ kilometers from the hotel we'll be at. not far, but not that close without your own car. then again, maybe the bus will be kind enough to stop briefly...with the entire 40+ people waiting in the bus while i run in to get a top up voucher??!?? maybe, maybe not. who knows if they are willing to do that.

this is so much trouble for the simple thing of getting a cell phone to use for 12 days!! yikes!

never thought that that would be the case!

When do you leave? You could just pay someone in Canada to buy some prepaid cards for you and mail them to you, or give you the voucher numbers...

I grew up ten miles from the Canadian border on the US side. I've never had a problem buying a prepaid SIM in Canada. I've had a harder time finding a SIM only deal.

Stu

PS: I don't know our personal needs, but what about just using Skype and hotel wifi?