Skype to invest in UM
 

The content of the today's UM newsflash which I received about half an hour ago.


Skype founding investor delivers major financial backing to
United Mobile

Morten Lund, a founding investor in global technology giant Skype, is investing in the international mobile network operator United Mobile.

"United Mobile has the solution we have all been waiting for – and the revenue I have been looking for" stated Morten Lund. He has a strong track record of successfully establishing and launching technologically innovative, financially profitable businesses in the internet and telephony industry.

Morten Lund is a firm advocate of United Mobile's business strategy of combining its services with so called Web 2.0 functionality. He commented: "The business rationale behind United Mobile's decision to integrate Web 2.0 features into its service offering is compelling. The organisation’s key objective is to transfer the Skype model to the mobile phone for average Joe who is travelling. United Mobile will deliver a combination of Truphone, Jajah and Skype on a "One SIM card Service". The company will be a leader in delivering free mobile telephony worldwide. This pioneering new business model will be widely adopted in the world's leading mobile markets in the near future."


Sven Donhuysen, CEO and President of United Mobile, commented: "It is a great endorsement for us to have a strategic investor with a track record like Morten on board. He is well connected and has a wealth of expertise of successful investment in the internet and mobile technology space."

So?
 

Received same msg. BUT.... what does it mean? How is Web 2.0 going to impact this and how are they going to make any money by offering FREE mobile telephony -- WORLDWIDE, nonetheless?

Would like to see some specifics.

I don't see how the can implement this innovation when they can't even live up to their current service promises (AU) and even deliver and receive SMS from US via SMSbug or T-mobile.

Stan

Web 2.0 is IMHO a kind of "marketing blah-blah-blah" - trendy phrase w/o strict definition to make impression of being modern and up-to-date :-).

But I think the real sense of the message is that they want to use to fast wireless data transfer (WiFi/3G) to offer "free" VoIP connections. Perhaps they "integrate" UM and Skype credits and, eg. you could pay from the same credit for a cheap SkypeOut connection while you are in the WiFi coverage or expensive GSM connection elsewhere... Just my speculations.

As to the service promises - I don't want to justify UM in any way but they are perfect to compare with Yackie or Callblue. And T-Mo US->UM blockade issue seems to be a T-Mo decision and I see no reason why to blame UM for it.

The only thing I read is that not skype is investing in UM but one of the investors that once invested in skype is now investing in UM.
The biggest problem for UM is their lichtenstein number. Calling lichtenstein is getting more and more of a problem and rates for calling lichtenstein numbers are getting more expensive day by day it seems.

I still have a UM number but hardly use it because of that reason. IOM seems to be a better alternative as you will get a normal +44 number.

I am wondering how this new investor will change the problem calling lichtenstein mobile at very high rates.

The question is does he want to change it? Why should he do that since this is how the UM makes money (revenue)

Why do lots of people buy a roaming free card. Some for their family others are truck drivers and it becomes less interesting if they have to call an expensive lichtenstein mobile number.

On the other hand IOM card have a +44 number and still they also seem to make money.
As for UM part of their income will come from caling their number but just a small part. Carriers make the most profit.

This may be true for many cases but probably not for this. This is very expensive call and cannot easily be justified by an increase in call cost by carriers alone.

Ask yourself why would you choose a provider that offers no roaming for many countries.

As there are many type of customers all have different reasons.

Business customers do not care if someone need to call an expensive lichtenstein mobile number. On the other hand not too many business customers know of UM. Most true business customers have 1 GSM with a local carrier so they have great rates in their home country and they can be reached on 1 number.

Other customers are for personal use, going on holiday etc. These type of customers look after pricing and calling an expensive lichtenstein number is not very good.

There are more examples. I have both UM and IOM cell phone but as said UM will stop in some time because of the bad rates but more important some of my customers seem to be blocked by their local carrier and unable to call to UM numbers. Also some customers ask what funny number do you have. A +44 number just looks better and more serious.
UM will still have a great market but at the moment I see many disadvantages compared to IOM cards.
What this invester will change in that, no idea.

You are right on your points. My point was only that UM is getting a good revenue from the increase of rates to call its network. Normally a carrier does not change the rate to a destination (at least not in such an extent) unless this is imposed by the destination

This could be intriguing in terms of:
1) If they hooked Skype-In VOIP directly to the United Mobile/Mobilekom Liechtenstein switch, someone could call in to a less expensive(and possibly local) number in the UK, US, etc. United Mobile/Skype would profit from the charges for a Skype-In number.
2) Direct dial (callback without using Callback World,etc.) rates might be less because the long distance portion would be carried by cheaper VOIP Skype. Concern though is audio quality...VOIP connections not always the best.
3) If used with a GSM/Wifi handset, you could have cheaper WiFi VOIP when in range of a wifi site, and a single account (instead my seperate Skype and United Mobile accounts). Not sure about their free mobile telephony claim though unless it was wifi VOIP to another wifi handset.
4) Possibility of data services (GPRS, etc.) if they are going really high tech with VOIP anyway?
These are all guesses about what United Mobile might do, but hopefully they will implement some of this.

Now we seem to know more about the background of this investment. UM have new +44 numbers which kills my argument against the +423 numbers.

The +44 number will help them as it is more recognised and can be called easily at lower rates than the +423 numbers.

But consider one issue: +44 7937 SIMs are not just +423 663 SIMs to which call are forwarded from +44 numbers. They are a separate product with different coverage and pricing.

Pricing is not an issue as I use my own callback system with voip.

Coverage is good the same for european countries, only asia, africa etc there are some difference. But I do get your point.

As I said before the biggest disadvante of +423 seems to be the rates calling this number are increasing and increasing.
+44 mobile rates seem to be good and does not matter is you dial IOM mobile of Jersey mobile or uK mobile. Most operators just have 1 rate for +44 mobile.

It appears in another thread that the +44 numbers UM is using are "super premium" numbers. My guess is that as operators discover what it is costing them to connect calls, they'll block them or raise the rates.
I assume these super premium numbers are like what 976 and 900 numbers are in the states. The holder of a 900 number gets a piece of the action.

...mike

http://www.ukphoneinfo.com/search/Ph...s_code_79.html

link to +44-79 numbers. The 37 is listed to jersey telecom. All others fro 1-99 have other operators. Regular UK operators. So I don't see why the 37 would be a special number as 79 is also the starting code for many other mobile phone providers.

From all I have heard till now rates calling 7937 are the same as calling to any 79xx number.

http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/dynami...rch%202007.pdf

page 2

+44-7509 is also a new range for jersey telecom

There is no such thing in +44 mobile numbers.

Actually a +44.79 for NOT UK people is simply a number in "UE Zone".

I am wondering how much it costs to dial such number (+447937) from BT. From Greece (when using OTE-BT equivalent) it costs 2,5 times more than calling UK Vodafone for example (or Orange, o2, tmobile).
So If you are not using voip what is the cost? From normal (pstn) telephone lines. Can someone advise on this?

In Italy Prion actually we don't have any difference from UK price list (excpet for some Voip carriers). So using a mobile network or a landline I'm just paying as a british mobile (for ex. from my 3 postpaid contract I pay only 9 ct. / min to call a +4479 :beer: ).

But here, in Greece it is different. I have already explained that dialing the +447937 prefix costs much more than other uk mobile networks. OTE has claimed that this is due to higher termination rates imposed by foreign networks (Jersey telecom in our case).

I am almost certain that BT is going to charge more when calling to 07937. I would also like to mention that voipfone (UK voip provider) does not connect to 07937.

I'll be very curious to learn what the various US international carriers and callback services will charge to call the +44937.... range of numbers.

I have a hunch Barry @ CBW will have a very attractive callback solution for +44-7937.

That will probably depend on them having one rate to dial uk mobiles or not. If they have one rate, then they will probably include it there.

Voiptalk (uk voip provider) charges 24 pence/min to connect to 07937 numbers.

Do you mean "euroroaming zone" or "zone for outgoing calls from the home country"?
You're basically right about second option, I think. As you said, the difference in pricing (if any) between UK and the crown dependencies with the +44 numbering may occur for VoIP providers. In Poland, so far I've only one VoIP provider which charges moreless twice as much calls to +4476, +4479 and 3UK than to other +44 mobiles. No mobile or landline provider distinguishes those territories.
However, with roaming the things are different. So far, 3 out of 4 operators here declared their euroroaming tariffs. Plus and Play don't mention about Channel Is/IoM so they probably consider them as parts of UK. However, Era in its roaming tariffs declared those territories explicitly as non-EU (both as origin and destination of calls).

Based on the [United Mobile will deliver a combination of Truphone, Jajah and Skype on a "One SIM card Service"] statement and the new Jersey card that they said will have UMTS data service in 4q07, I wonder if they will have the option of VOIP calls over UMTS and if this would be cheaper than either a standard GSM callback on United Mobile or using a CBW solution?

<i>However, with roaming the things are different. So far, 3 out of 4 operators here declared their euroroaming tariffs. Plus and Play don't mention about Channel Is/IoM so they probably consider them as parts of UK. However, Era in its roaming tariffs declared those territories explicitly as non-EU (both as origin and destination of calls).</i>

Umm, yes! The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are not in the UK and not in the EU . . .

And how about Gibraltar then? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar#Politics says:
Gibraltar is a part of the European Union, having joined under the British Treaty of Accession (1973), with exemption from some areas such as the Customs Union and Common Agricultural Policy.

Does this mean that euroroaming tariffs apply to Gibraltar?

Yes, Gibraltar is surely inside eurotariff

O2 Czech Eurotariff Offer Including list of countries
 

O2 Eurotariff

One rate for calling within EU countries.

We are offering a new tariff for favorably-priced calling in all 27 EU countries.

Calling between EU countries (including the Czech Republic) costs 13.95 CZK/min (16.60 incl. VAT). For incoming calls you pay 6.85 CZK/min (8.15 incl. VAT).

Activation

The new O2 Eurotariff can be activated from July 29, 2007 in any of the following ways:

* Corporate line 800 111 777 (*77 from your mobile)
* Business line 800 203 203 (*52 from your mobile)
* By contacting one of our business representatives
* Entrepreneurs can send an SMS with the keyword EUROTARIF to the phone number 999 111

Activation takes place one month after the customer has submitted their request for the service. After the service is launched on August 29, 2007, all customers will be able to activate O2 Eurotariff together with the O2 Roaming service.

O2 Eurotariff cannot be combined with other special roaming offers, including individual roaming conditions stated in the Framework Contract. Once O2 Eurotariff is activated, all of these special offers, and their respective benefits, are deactivated.

Prices
Zone Outgoing calls within zone
and to the Czech Republic Incoming calls SMS MMS
EU 13.95 / 16.60 6.85 / 8.15 10 / 11.90 7.80 / 9.28
Rest of Europe 35 / 41.65 20 / 23.80 10 / 11.90 7.80 / 9.28
Other countries 55 / 65.45 45 / 53.55 10 / 11.90 7.80 / 9.28

EU – Austria, Azores (Portugal), Belgium, Bulgaria, Canary Islands (Spain), Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, French Guinea (France), Germany, Gibraltar (Great Britain), Great Britain, Greece, Guadeloupe (France), Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Madeira (Portugal), Malta, Martinique (France), the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Réunion (France), Romania, San Marino, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Vatican (Italy)

Rest of Europe – Albania, Andorra, Belarus, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Faeroe Islands, Guernsey, Iceland, Isle of Man, Jersey, Kosovo, Liechtenstein, Macedonia, Moldavia, Monaco, Norway, Serbia and Montenegro, Switzerland, Turkey, the Ukraine

Other countries – All remaining countries (including Russia)

Vodafone Czech Eurotariff
 

Vodafone Czech will include in Eurotariff countries EU plus Croatia and Switzerland.

After a few days of emails back and forth between myself and Voipfone.co.uk it looks like they will be connecting to Jersey Telecom based numbers

Their latest reply was...

Thanks for taking the time to contact Voipfone.


We are currently making changes with our routing tables, and negotiating prices.

We’ll see if we can get 07937 routed, at the moment if we enabled that route we would have to charge around 32p per minute (ex VAT).

...Which is more than what they charge for IOM based numbers at 12p (ex VAT)


At least they are a company that listens to it customers, I remember not so long ago they wouldn't connect 07911 WiFi services but after one email with them they now do

Voipfone is a serious company. Bear also in mind that BT charges 28.5 p/min (peak) to connect to 07937 numbers!

UMTS or any dataservice does not work using callback. UM can keep rates low because the use callback.

I don''t think that they will be able to offer roaming free data as data is charged per kb or mb or whatever.
When they offer is it porbably depends on the network you are using if this is blocking voip / skype, some networks do. UM will have no influence on them.

For my busniess I use voicetrading the pro part of betamax only for companies. You need a vat number and company registration to buy credit, which is at leasat 500 euro credit. But the rate is only 0,10 euro and it works fine.
The also have very competitive rates to other destinations and their rates to mobile phones in many countries are very low.
The now offer 3 type of services. dail 0001 for a cheap call rate. 00 for a normal rate and 000 for a premium quality. the 000 rate is not really that much higher than the normal or low quality rate.

Many carrier who use callback for roaming calls (e.g. Wind) also offer prepaid roaming. This is done by having to pass your data connection back through the home APN where it can be metered.

I don't see a conflict between callbacks and data for the reasons mentioned by DN. It should be noted that callbacks are not limited to prepaid. Several Hong Kong providers offer their subscribers better roaming rates when using their callbackservice.

From what I've read, voip using an efficient codec gives you roughly ten minutes of talk time per meg. The average data roaming rate that I've seen is ten to fifteen US dollars a meg. (Come back Mega No Limits!!!).

Assume the lower rate and no termination rates, you are still talking about US$1 a minute over VOIP.

VOIP over 3g is also real shaky. I've done it on one provider in the UK and to quote my British friends "it was simply brilliant." In other places, this isn't likely to be the case.

By the way, for those of you using SIP and Windows Mobile 5 or 6 (without the SIP module) take a look at Fring. It has great connectivity to both Skype and SIP. It also gives you Skype on Symbian.

Don't be so sure about this (not that I don't like Barry and think cbw has worked real well for me until the fiasco with Liechtenstein mobiles that started in April when the price was raised from 14¢ to 29¢ and now to well over 50¢.

However, if you check the tables, you will find that calls to and from UK mobiles on cbw cost over 40¢/minute as compared to 28¢/minute from and to German and French mobiles.

One would sense they are averaging things out to the +44 mobiles with the calls to and from the Isle of Man pulling this price up (perhaps their billing tables cannot distinguish between one +44 carrier from another)...only voicestick to the best of my limited knowledge has different prices to and from +44 carriers with Orange and T Mobile being in the 13¢ range and O2 and Isle of Man being around 31¢/minute.

Unfortunately I am afraid to use voicestick for call forwarding purposes because of their inability (or refusal) to fix the problem of being charged for 5 minutes when a quick 10 second message is left in voice mail. This has been an ongoing problem unique to them that I find it difficult to believe has not been resolved despits countless e mails regarding this.

I've been able to use my verizon landline call forwarding when I've travelled away from home to various European sims....generally when in the UK I've used local sims and the rate runs around 28¢/minute...up till April to Liechtenstein mobiles it was 11¢/minute and now has shot through the roof to 41¢/minute...the question is what will at&t which is my ld carrier used when call forwarding internationally charge to either the Isle of Man.....I was hoping to find out simplyusing a call into voicemail (to set it up anyway) with the new UM+ sim but as noted elsewhere, when the phone is off I get an error message the number doesn't exist while of course if I have the phone on and let it slide into voicemail, we get the double billing whammy gsm phones are famous for and of course while in the USA I can't answer the UM+ or its over €2...and both the Estonian and Icelandic termination fees on at&t ld are absurd.