Germany and France
 

Never purchased any SIMs in Europe. Going to Berlin and Nice for a week each at the beginning of July.

Looked at the rate pages on prepaidgsm.net for national SIMs for each country and for the international SIMs.

The info. raises a lot of questions still:

1. Some SIMs in some countries are activated instantly but in others it takes time? So it's advisable to purchase in advance before leaving the US but better deals are available in-country?

I was hoping to pick up something at the airport but that may not be the best option?

2. The per-minute charges, especially from the main network operators and especially in France, aren't that great? Not as bad as Europe roaming costs from US carriers, which can be 99 cents a minute but the French national operators are charging around 60 euro cents per minute?

Some international SIMs aren't that much more expensive if at all?

Meanwhile, MVNOs using those same networks often undercharge the main network operators?

3. Roaming between countries is way expensive, like around 2 euros a minute? EU is trying to change that but does that apply to prepaid SIMs or only to people with monthly plans?

4. What is CSD?

5. I have an unlocked Nokia E61i, which has a QWERTY keyboard, quadband and supposedly WCDMA 2100.

Some SIMs offer UMTS but they list voice and data calls? The UMTS voice rates seem higher than the regular voice rates (even though 3G supposedly has lower operating costs)?

Data rates seem prohibitive, like several cents for a few kiloBYTE as well as per-minute connection charges? A web page can load several hundred kBs so you could be paying several euros just to load a web page? Is that right or am I missing something? GPRS isn't any cheaper either.

I had heard that some UK plans have flat fee for 3G data and assumed European plans might be similar but it seems if they offer data at all on prepaid plans, it's always metered for data and often for connection time.

If I could have done some 3G surfing occasionally and paid say 10 euros each week, it might be worth trying out, since in the US, my phone doesn't support the 3G data bands. But it sounds really prohibitive just to sample even a little bit.

Anyone find things any different as far as UMTS data?

Regarding the overall strategy for 2 countries for 2 weeks, it seems picking up a MVNO of E-Plus and then whatever the cheapest in France would be the best idea. I'm more likely to return to France before the SIM and credits expire. Don't anticipate having to recharge so getting the cheapest SIM seems to be an idea and just letting them expire.

The international SIMs may be of value to Americans going to several countries but wouldn't people trying to call you from a French phone have to pay a lot to call a UK or Lichtenstein number? Maybe they see that country code and doesn't bother making the call, instead expect you to call back?

That's a lot of information. I'd question if you'd use the phone enough in one week to justify the local SIM, particularly when the international SIMs have such good rates. It depends on how much you plan to use the phone in each country.

Sorry, it is a lot of info. but the prepaidgsm info. was overwhelming to me too.:p

Yeah I don't expect to use it a lot, just something to have. Some services ask you for a mobile number, like a hotel I was trying to reserve. Wonder if they would have called an overseas mobile number though.

So an international SIM might be good but looking at the rates listed here, it looks like you can get a national SIM for 20 Euros or less while the international SIMs are at least twice that? So it seems like buying two national SIMs would be about the same as getting one international SIM.

Plus, UMTS isn't available on international SIMs if I'm not mistaken? Maybe surfing on UMTS is too much to really be something I should even consider though.

Let's try to answer to all the questions...

1) I think both German and French sim cards are activated at once when you buy them in the shops.

2) French prepaid cards are expensive, but billing is per second and MVNOs have usually cheaper rates

3) Usually it's cheaper among EU countries, about 1eur/min, anyway it's no sense to buy an European card for roaming...

4) It's the "old-style" way to make data calls calling an internet provider with your phone at 9,6Kbps... Most EU carriers offer at least GPRS to prepaid customers so you won't need CSD.

5) Voice calls always have the same rates with GSM or UMTS, it really doesn't change. Videocalls are usually more expensive, but I suppose you won't do any.
Data calls are expensive (not in Germany with some MVNOs) but there are sometimes some good offers.

I was thinking of getting Aldi Talk (medionmobile.de). The site doesn't have English pages so it seems the only way to buy is once I'm in Germany.

On the billing, I'm confused by the terminology. In the Germany pages, they talk about billing and have notations like 1/1 or 60/30. But in the France pages, they refer to a "Debiting Method" which I assume is the same thing?

And I'm guessing that 60/60 denotes billing per second? So if you do have a 75 second call, you get billed for 75 seconds, not 2 minutes?

I see that you collect a lot of country and international SIMs. Which works better for you? What did you think of E-Plus or Aldi? They're the cheapest around but perhaps their network wasn't up to snuff? Have you sed a prepaid in France?

Finally, are there any reasonable postpaid plans for UMTS at all? Lot of people are saying the iPhone won't fly in Europe without 3G. Yet if the UMTS charges for prepaid is indicative of UMTS pricing, can anyone be using a lot of data on the go?

Aldi Talk. Yes, only there and in Aldi stores.
Debiting same as billing. The first # is for the first minute and is in seconds. The second # is for subsequent minutes and also in seconds.
So with 60/60 the 75 second call is indeed billed as 2 minutes.

You can buy SIMYO or SUNSIM, among others, online in advance SHIPPED TO A GERMAN address like a hotel. You will know your # in advance.

If there will be more trips to other locations, the international SIM may be better IN THE LONG RUN (meaning next trips). I think the local SIMs may be the way to go if it will be just this once or just this once for quite some time. Of course I don't believe any of the internationals have UMTS service yet.

Bon voyage.

Stan

Usually you don't get cards with good tariffs at airports.

Correct. You could even consider using a German D2 Callya card in France, you'd have to pay "only" 0,29€/minute plus 0,75€ per call.

The EU is changing that for prepaid cards too, however the regulation will take another two to six weeks, so it might not help you yet.

At least for Germany you could either use Simyo/Blau/Aldi with 0,24€/MB or Websessions with a Callya card for 2€/10€/15€ you get a flatrate for 15min/2h/24h, the third one even works in some either countries (including France).

For France, I think I'd use Voipcheap sms callback with whichever one has the cheapest int'l sms tariff (to Isle of Man).

Germany, either the same or Sunsim + VC callthrough, or Blauworld.

A German VC account would do for sms for both countries and the German callthrough, once both numbers are added to your profile

Is Voicecheap listed under the UK SIMs?

So you have people send SMS to you and then you call back? I'm completely new at prepaid overseas SIMs.

Actually, I didn't see the point of SMS until I saw some of the prepaid tariffs for voice vs. SMS. Texts used to be free and then operators started charging per message as it became so popular. So I was inclined to be skeptical of SMS but I see it can be more economical than voice calls.

No, it's a VoIP provider.

Apart from services you'd use to make calls over the internet, they have others such as callthrough access numbers in some countries, much like a calling card account, or a callback service, which triggers an incoming call that then connects to the destination, thus avoiding the SIM's higher outgoing call rates. A call between a French mobile and USA would cost 9 eurocents a minute

http://www.voipcheap.com/en/newsflash.html#news0

OK I get you.

I will take my laptop so I could use Skype to call back to the US.

Also, I have a Nokia E61i and although I haven't really investigated it much, there are suppose to be VOIP options and I can use Wifi.

The main use would be for calling in country and also a curiosity about 3G over there -- the phone is suppose to support WCDMA 2100.

Simyo and Blau until last week didn't support UMTS. The new SIMs they'll send should work. Alditalk is your only choice for a German USIM, if you'e not a resident.

Are Simyo and Blau more widely available than the Aldi Talk SIMs?

Any chance of finding Simyo or Blau at TXL? Main advantage would be if I needed to dial the place where I'm staying.


OK, so a lot of European numbers have full country codes and the city area code.

So if I buy a SIM in that country, I should just be able to dial the number after the country and area or city code right?

Is there a harm in dialing the full number with the +49 (which is for Germany)? Will it make the prepaid SIM think it's doing international roaming?

Also, when can you omit the leading zero in the country or city code and when must you include it? Or is it better to include it all the time?

>Are Simyo and Blau more widely available than the Aldi Talk SIMs?
They'll be sent to your residential address via mail, so no they aren't.
>Any chance of finding Simyo or Blau at TXL?
Unfortunately chances are close to zero percent. If you have any chance, look for a Aldi store. The SIM can be activated later on over the internet. If you don't need GPRS or UMTS, there are many other choices. You can't be sure to get an UMTS capable SIM at Simyo or Blau, while Aldi only sells UMTS SIMs.
>So if I buy a SIM in that country, I should just be able to dial the number after the country and area or city code right?
Correct.
>Is there a harm in dialing the full number with the +49 (which is for Germany)? Will it make the prepaid SIM think it's doing international roaming?
No, you can either dial +4930xxxxxx or 030xxxxxxx all the same at the same costs with a german SIM
>Also, when can you omit the leading zero in the country or city code and when must you include it? Or is it better to include it all the time?
You always skip the leading zero in the (german) city code or it won't work. Don't skip anything in the country code. you either dial +4930xxxxxx or 004930xxxx

Anyway, have fun

Just checked on the blau.de homepage. They'll only send UMTS USIMs to all customers that order on that page.

I have READ that SIMYO is available in CERTAIN retail outlets.

Try this link:

http://aktion.simyo.de/cashlocation/

Hmm, Simyo does list outlets near where I'll be staying.

Anyone know the postal code for TXL?

Just try the name of the town. What is TXL?

There's supposedly a Lebensmittelfachgeschaeft at Tegel. I entered 13405.

>I have READ that SIMYO is available in CERTAIN retail outlets.
Be careful, they don't sell SIMs there, but only vouchers. (Starter-Set- Gutscheine) You pay for the voucher and will recieve your SIM card a few days later by mail. I've no idea, why this has to be so complicated.???

Some info in German here: http://www.inside-handy.de/news/8583.html

Unfortunately, the MVNOs seem to deliver only inside Germany. Maybe they don't really market to international visitors.

More retail distribution would be good. From the way people were talking, it seems prepaid SIMs in some countries at least are sold at all stores? But perhaps it's only the big carriers like Vodaphone and T-Mobile.

wco81, like I posted above. You can buy a SIM working on UMTS, same prices as Simyo at any ALDI store in Germany. It's very easy, and they sell to anybody. ALDI is one of the big huge retailers of the western world, far bigger than Simyo anyway and the Aldi SIM works on E-Plus. So where's the problem?

You want a German UMTS SIM to take away instantly, you go to Aldi :-)

Btw. To recharge, you use E-Plus "Free&Easy" recharge vouchers. They are available everywhere.

I will be staying near the Brandenburg Gates. Nearest Aldi store I see is on Postdamerplatz, just south of the Sony center?

I'm arriving on a Sunday afternoon. Aldi is closed on Sundays.

That's the only reason I was wondering if there were other brands which might be available at stores which might be open on Sundays.

>available at stores which might be open on Sundays.
On Sundays? Not a chance.

You can literary put a sign "OUT OF ORDER" and hang it on germany on sundays. No stores are open at all - besides some 24hour service fuel stations with some basic stuff...

Chris

FYI, when I Googled Salama for Tele2 (whose web site no longer loads), I found a web page which said this particular prepaid SIM is sold at tabac, epicerie and teleboutique (call shops).

Tobacco houses, grocer or deli, or dedicated call shops.

Hmm, I wouldn't begin to know where to search for the last one. Maybe French Yellow Pages.

OK I finally got an Aldi Talk Starter Kit.

Put in the SIM in my Nokia E61i and it prompts me several times for a PIN. Finally find the codes hidden behind a tape in the kit but by that time, I have to enter one of two PUK codes and then it accepts one of the PINs.

But now, the Nokia is saying SIM card registration failed.

I try registering online at medionmobile.de, not knowing Germain, I do the best I can. It gives me a customer number (Kundennummer) and an order number.

But apparently registering at their website does nothing for activating the SIM?

Can it be this convoluted?

I see a hotline but I can't dial it because the SIM card is not registered and/or I can see a network. Probably because SIM is not registered.

What more do they need besides a SIM? The Aldi store clerk didn't speak English so I would think it's pointless to go back there.

Hi, you need to find a different phone to dial this hotline. Either a payphone or hotel etc.

Or online on this form: https://www.medionmobile.de/merit/registernew.do

Takes about 6 hours to get the sim active.

Christian

Hope you didn't enter the wrong pin number more than 10 times because then the sim card is fried and even the PUK code won't help (or is it entering the wrong PUK code 10 times, I never remember which)....oh yeah 3 wrong attempts at entering the PIN means you need the PUK code and 10 wrong entries of the PUK code and the sim card is history. It is for that reason that one of the first things I do when acquiring a new sim card is turn off the pin code protection and change the pin code to one I always use. Interestingly enough, my Vodafone DE sim card does not allow me to do so (although it did allow me to change the pin code).

As far as German shops being closed on Sunday, we found that to be true during our recent trip to Germany. Since in so many ways, Germany is like the United States (sorry to my German friends, but other than the language Germany is probably more like the united States than most other places I've been too. After all, the US Army ran much of the country for a good period of time). But in any event, this is one thing the Germans can learn from the United Staes where almost everywhere, department stores and many retail shops and restaurants are open on Sundays and have been so for the last 30 years.

Off topic I know... but this is a disputed issue in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. Religious views aside, I think it is good that a country can 'wind down' at least one day a week. Of course essentials should always be available, and this holds true in Germany on Sundays. Even though a SIM card is not considered an essential, you can still buy several things on Sundays in petrol station shops and more importantly the shops in and around train stations. AFIK You might even be able to buy SIM cards from all of the main operators in such shops/kiosks on Sundays... just not Medion Mobile. This is only because Aldi chose to keep their costs down and do not sell them through ANY other reseller (as far as I know).

In countries like Germany, you won't even find any trucks (apart from a few critical food transporters) on any of the roads on Sundays. What a relief!!

I for one am delighted that the whole world doesn't blindly follow everything that the Americans have been doing for 30 years... even though increasingly this is exactly what is happening (and this applies to more than just store opening hours!!)

OK after I posted today, I checked it and it was activated and I was on the network.

But that leads to other questions, which are difficult if you don't know German.

1) How do I check my balance? Can I text some number and get my balance back?

2) Can I top off via the phone or from the web site or do I need to buy the cards?

3) On my Nokia E61i, which is a Symbian S60 phone, it now shows access points for the following: E-Plus Internet, E-Plus MMS, E-Plus WAP. Access Points on this phone lists both Wifi access points and packet data connections.

But I think E-Plus Internet may only be GPRS, not UMTS. In any event, if I try to load a web page using this E-Plus Internet, it doesn't load.

They have a configuration page for data connections but no mention of UMTS:

http://www.medionmobile.de/konfigurator.php#INFO

Is it possible the info on prepaidgsm.net about UMTS is incorrect and that this prepaid SIM doesn't offer UMTS? The starter kit also has no references to UMTS.

I guess I can try to call the hotline and see if they speak English.

Also stopped by an E-Plus shop, to see if they were familiar with configuring the Internet connection. They were busy and when I spoke to someone, they didn't speak English so I didn't stick around. They had a demo of a laptop with what looked like a 3G card.

Dial 1155 for balance. It will probably be in German though, although if you are lucky you may get an SMS (some operators do this, though I am not familiar with MedionMobile)

Not sure about the rest, but I'll take a look... or maybe someone else will beat me to an answer for you!

HAve a look at http://www.medionmobile.de/konfiguration_iframe.php though yor phone is not listed there!

Just looking at http://config.medionmobile.de/userpr...figuration.pdf shows that it does support both GPRS and UTMS.

It suggests access point wap.eplus.de, username: eplus and password wap.

IP addresses and ports are also listed there. I don't really know much about this, but I can help you with translation!

Dialing *100# will give you your current balance as a flash SMS.

As for GPRS/3G access, you need to make at least one phone call using the SIM first. After that, access will be activated usually in a 1-2 hour timeframe (this somewhat strange procedure was introduced to work around a bug in E-Plus' prepaid billing platform that allowed people to use GPRS without being charged with SIMs that weren't fully activated yet :rolleyes: ).

For internet, use the appropriate APN: internet.eplus.de -- AFAIK user id and password don't matter, but eplus / internet is what is documented everywhere. With current day equipment, that should more or less be all you need as far as settings go. How many times and in how many cryptic menues you may have to enter or reference that setting obviously depends on your hardware of choice and should be documented in the manual ...

Regards,
Chris.

[Edit]

P.S.: To top up, it's probably easiest to buy codes and enter them from your mobile. As has been mentioned, regular E-Plus "Free and Easy" codes will work with the medionmobile card as well -- at least currently. This is not officially documented, and may, for all I know, be subject to change without prior notice. For top-up, you can either call 1155 and select menu item 4 (IIRC) or enter the code using *104*CODE# (again IIRC).

OK I looked at the E-Plus WAP, as configured by the SIM already.

It had the username and password already set up.

I did load a couple of pages and it was okay but certainly slower than Wifi, which is what you'd expect.

However, in examining the configuration, the "Data bearer" is set to "Packet Data" on my Nokia. But there are 4 choices: Packet Data, Wireless LAN, Data Call and High Speed (GSM).

Like I said, the E-Plus WAP is set to Packet Data and with that, the "Access Point Name" shows "wap.eplus.de." That corresponds to the GPRS-Zugangspunkt (APN) setting in that configuration PDF.

I tried changing the Data Bearer to "Data Call" or "High Speed (GSM)" but then the "Access Point Name" (and wap.eplus.de) disappears and you get a "Dial-Up Number" field which shows "Must be defined."

Does GPRS require a dial-up number? Does CSD? Perhaps that is what "Data Call" or "High Speed (GSM)" corresponds to?

Hmm Zugangspunkt means access point according to a German-English dictionary. So GPRS and UMTS apparently both use the concept of access points rather than dial up numbers like CSD.

Perhaps if you're near a UMTS tower, it will use that and if you're only near a GPRS tower, you only get GPRS speeds?

Which is fine if WAP access is what you want. AFAIK you will need the internet APN for anything besides WAP, i.e. email and other networking apps.

Uhm. Obviously. ;)

You do not want CSD, trust me. Packet is just fine.

No. Data carrying mechanisms in UMTS are basically equivalent to GPRS. That's why there's no distinction between those in that regard.

CSD or HSCSD are indeed more or less like good old classic modem data calls. Again, you most likely don't want that.

Yes. See above.

Bingo. Your mobile should also be indicating if you have 3G or just 2.5G coverage. Not having a gumboot phone myself, I can't say what should show up on yours. Others actually show "2G" "2.5G" or "3G", possibly "UMTS" or nasty little cryptic symbols.

Regards,
Chris.

I got something like:

sie mussen zuerst Ihre Geheimzahl einrichten

When I dialed *100#.

Google said something about secret number. Would this be the PIN that I used in the activation process?

BTW, each time I turn on the phone, I'm prompted for that PIN.

I can't imagine sending that would be a part of getting your balance.

See below. It returns a message for me saying I need to send a secret number (Google translation). Will that show me how much data I've downloaded when I loaded some web pages or just show me a raw money balance?

OK, I can now say it loads web pages with either E-Plus Internet (APN is internet.eplus.de) or E-Plus WAP (APN is wap.eplus.de). Both seem to load regular web sites, not WAP sites and they both seemed about the same speed.

So you have to buy or get top-up codes, there's no way to enter a credit card on a secure web page to get the codes displayed?

Looks like I get 12 months with either just the starter kit balance or any top-up.

Maybe it's better to let this one lapse because roaming in the EU is suppose to get a lot cheaper in the future right?

Obviously your card isn't fully activated yet. You need to dial your voice mail (IIRC 9911). You will be prompted to select a PIN number for that. This will finalize activation. Once activation is finalized, checking balance with either 1155 menu 1 or *100# will work.

Just the raw balance. For phone calls, 1155 menu 1 will also give access to the cost of the last 5 calls.

AFAIK not from the provider. A workaround would be buying codes via a third-party vendor like (I hope I won't get flak for this) Verivox.

And as soon as you top up € 15 or better, an additional 12 months, maxing out at 24 months.

AFAIK medionmobile has already announced lowering their prices to the EU-prescribed levels. As for the rest, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Regards,
Chris.