review
 

Hi all,

a little review after I received my Togglemobile SIM:

• toggle mobile ordered on 22.May 2013.
• Creditcard debited on 24.May 2013, value date 29. May 2013. Wow.
• The card was delivered in a B5-envelope to Switzerland on 27.May 2013 (today), originating from the UK, by registered mail.

Popped the card into the phone, nothing happened. I tried to access all available networks manually - to no avail. After an akward 2 minutes the phone displayed "please reboot your phone". After rebooting, the phone logged itself into the Swisscom network. (Sunrise and Orange not possible, even trying manually).

First thing, receiving a confusing SMS (I´m currently in Switzerland)
"You will pay max £0.28/min for a local call,
£4.10/min to Country (fixed line or GSM),
£0.07/min for calls received and
£0.08/SMS sent"
(I copied the SMS 1:1, inkl. what may seem strange!)

My own Toggle-UK-number wasn´t communicated by SMS. According to the manual it can be found on the SIM card holder, but it´s not there. Effectively, the number isn´t written anywhere. As the number is needed to register online, I called myself to obtain the number (0044-7404...). (EDIT: You can retrieve the number through *132#) Armed with the number, online registration is a breeze (without UK-prefix, thus 07404... only). When registering, all my data was re-requested (name, addresse etc...). I thus assume that you can use totally different details than those given during the ordering process.

After registering I added a Swiss Nummber/IMSI (0041-77-959...). Super simple, but you need a passport to copy the data from one of the machine-readable lines. Any blanks have to be filled with "<". (No idea if this would also work with an ID)

I rebooted the phone, just to make sure. I was hoping to receive a different pricing-SMS now. Unfortunately I received the (incorrect?) SMS (see above) again.

Next I added a Spanish (0034-63-290...) and a French (0033-6-056...) number. This worked between "immediately" and "one minute". All numbers were immediately reachable, without restarting the phone. Status is first shown as "pending" later "registered". Very nice implementation.

As a first test I called my own French Toggle# from a landline. The call was terminated on the Toggle-SIM in Switzerland (Swisscom network) without problems and in perfect quality. After 10 minutes the call appeared in the online "call history" - free :).

Next I want to port my "normal" UK-number to the ToggleSIM. I can only do this in about 2 weeks, so I´ll report then.

Rgds,
Christian

EDIT1: Just as I finish writing this report, I receive numerous SMS. Welcome-SMS displaying the UK-Nummer, incl. the invitation to register online (too late ;) ), and each additional number triggered 2 confirmation SMS.

EDIT2: After ~1 hour I received the following SMS: "Call 322 from UK, +44 7438 646322 from abroad or 02071322322 from another phone to fully activate your service and enjoy all the benefits of toggle mobile" I choose the +44 numner, "1" for customer service. "Please have your PUK available". I wondered what else should be activated here. The friendly Indian-English speaking Lady reveals: "Nothing" - if you already registered online, there´s no need to call. This SMS is just sent out to all customers by default. Strangely enough the call was free from Switzerland, I expected £0.03/min.

EDIT3: Call diverts from my Swiss Flatrate to the Swiss Toggle# were blocked/not forwarded, just as expected. As such I have to use an additional detour via my own Voip-equipment. I don´t get it - from Toggle´s perspective this is just another incoming call for which they can charge interconnect. Strange. I´d be willing to pay a few pence/min to be able to divert directly.

EDIT4: I wrote an email to customer service, asking to have the mailbox disabled. Let´s see if this works.

EDIT5: Call diverts on the ToggleSIM cannot be changed. This I also don´t get. Should be in Toggle´s interest to allow this, as they could charge interconnect + termination as per pricelist?

Summary Numbers/Prefixes, in case someone needs:

• UK: 0044-7404...
• Switzerland: 0041-77-959...
• France: 0033-6-056...
• Spain: 0034-63-290...

on lycamobile galaxy now they are only one network available if the country purpose a lycamobile offer: their partner ;) period.

You mean that you cannot use the Dutch Vodafone IMSI (called "Roaming") to roam in toggle countries?
That's at least what has been reported by German users. But I assume that roaming through the Dutch Vodafone IMSI is only barred for those countries you have a local IMSI from.

roaming in france or choose FR number give me only bouygues télécom as choice. no others network.

So you can still use the "Roaming" IMSI but it is restricted to Bouygues like the French Lyca IMSI? Have you tried to manually select the other networks four times in a row while you use the Roaming IMSI? If you try to register on a certain network less than four times, your SIM may be refused due to steering of roaming which can be overcome by repeatedly trying to register for four times.

I can only talk about Switzerland right now. I am in Switzerland and I ordered a local Swiss number.

When choosing the "Roaming"-IMSI I cannot access any Swiss network. I requested access 5 times in a row (just to make sure) on each of the 3 networks, to no avail.

Choosing the Swiss IMSI gives me access to Swisscom (only).

For testing purposes I use a Nokia C2-00. When choosing "Automatic" in the SIM Kit, I cannot access any network. I have to choose Switzerland manually.

I´ll report about Germany (without local number) when I visit Germany next time (probably Friday).

Rgds, Christian

oups. in fact i'm on the same case as ChrisNeedsToKnow, i think they changed my roaming to france without warn me :-(

on ROAMING vodafone NL, no network in France
on France, only bouygues telecom...

lycatel now has negociated with vodafone no network agreement on several countries... so when a lycamobile country is open or if you ask / have asked one month free country number it is now one network you must force. period.

It's hardly surprising that toggle now blocks roaming through the "Roaming" IMSI for those countries you have an IMSI from. I would rather assume that there were technical reasons why this barring hasn't been implemented earlier and not legal/contractual ones. You probably remember what I wrote in February in this regard:

IMHO i think this barring was recent and during the last negociation, lycatel has asked to better filter network and countries.

in any case, it is always b€tt€r than a lycatel customer use a country partner
with his own lycatel MCC/MNC code ;)

Interesting.

Btw, according to this German forum post toggle has recently enabled data roaming for the Roaming IMSI, though the observed charge of £0.66/MB seems a bit high. Can anyone confirm this?
Having a German IMSI and being out of reach of foreign networks I cannot test is myself.

From discussions I've seen elsewhere, it seems that Toggle has tightened up its roaming and diversion processes over the last six weeks.

As well as blocking same-country diverts using the usual *21# etc GSM divert codes within the designated home country (as defined by the registered IMSIs on the SIM card - e.g. O2 to UK Toggle number, SFR to French Toggle number etc) the company has also applied quite rigorous roaming steerage where the SIM card has a user-applied local country IMSI registered (for 30 days or 12 months as appropriate).

Where the card has not been pro-actively registered for use in a given country - other than, of course, its Toggle home country of the UK or the Netherlands, then the SIM cards should (famous last words) roam on to all relevant networks, but at the `normal' (and not discounted) roaming rates of 28 cents a minute.

Hope this info assist... Steve :)

if i well understood, you confirm my comments ?

Yes, he did. Actually your observation applies to all toggle countries including Germany. As soon as you are being assigned a local IMSI roaming through the Roaming IMSI will be blocked.

This blocking is a good thing. I was in Spain a while ago and for some reason my SIM did not go automatically to the Spanish IMSI - it stayed in roaming mode and charged me quite a bit more than the advertised 3p per minute. I finally figured out how to get into the SIM menu and I manually changed to Spain and all was well.

Blocking the roaming IMSI in Toggle countries would seem to be an extra layer to prevent inadvertent and expensive use of the roaming network.

Do I understand this correctly, Steve?

This isn't about call diversion from the Toggle SIM itself, but the ability to forward other numbers to it?

Does diversion rely on getting permission from the destination number network, and that can be turned down?

I've seen comments above that it won't be possible, or that's what I think it means, but so far I'm a little confused as I can still do so, though that's not yet tested abroad. Coming soon ...

Hi andy,

may I try to answer your questions?Diverts from Toggle to elsewhere are (unfortunately) not possible.

Not directly, but it can be indirectly implemented: A diverted call is technically marked as such. Thus the receiving network can identify diverted calls, and handle them differently.

• Diverting my "normal" Swiss# to Toggle is not possible, Toggle rejects the call.
• Diverting my "normal" German# to Toggle is (strangely) possible and Toggle accepts the call. When receiving such calls the phone even displays "diverted call".
• I wish to test the same with my "usual" UK#, but Virgin doesn´t allow diverts.

Abroad... I am in Switzerland now, and my Swiss# cannot be diverted to Toggle. On Friday I´ll be in Germany. I´ll test again whether the Swiss divert will suddenly work when I log into the German network. Have to say I doubt it. We´ll see Friday. :)

Rgds, Christian

Hi inquisitor,

I set a divert from callmobile.de to my German Toggle#, and I receive the calls in Switzerland without problems. The call is even shown as "diverted".

Maybe diverts just don't work inside any given country, as inside Switzerland exactly what you describe happens to me. (Although I wouldn´t get the sense of this?!)

As per last post, I´ll report this Friday on whether I can receive Swiss diverts in Germany.

Rgds, Christian

The SS7 protocol which is used for interconnection among carriers has a forward sequence number (FSN) and a forward indicator bit (FIB) by which the originating carrier discloses to the terminating carrier that a call is being forwarded and also from which phone number the call is actually originating. The main purpose of this information is that the terminal of the receiving party can indicate forwarded calls as such enabling the end user to distinguish between regular and forwarded calls (you might have noticed that your mobile phone indicates forwarded calls and displays the original callers number instead of the forwarding line's number).
Toggle unfortunately uses this information to block calls that are flagged as forwarded. I guess the reason for the blocking of forwarded calls is that they try to avoid assymetric call volumes where incoming calls outweigh outgoing ones since they obviously don't earn much from free incoming calls given today's low mobile termination rates in most markets. Toggle's business model very likely relies on a sound amount of outgoing calls and so they probably try to avoid too much incoming calls by blocking forwarded calls. Though the current blocking rules seem to be a bit inconsistent.
In any case when you set up the forwarding through your own VoIP equipment there's no FSN or FIB that may reveal forwarded calls since the FSN or FIB can only be added by the exchange and not by the user terminal. Hence I can still forward all my VoIP numbers to my toggle SIM through intervoip.com (a Dellmont brand) using my FritzBox. Problems start when you let your carrier forward calls in the exchange.

While in the UK, my UK Toggle number receives incoming calls diverted via Flextel. I know you're all testing more elaborate routing, but I thought I should mention this.

According to Andy's report forwardings within the UK seem not to be affected by the blocking.
Do you actually see the original caller's number when you receive a forwarded call on your toggle SIM? If not Flextel perhaps doesn't even submit FSN/FIB information which would allow toggle to block your forwarded calls.

Yes, I called from my Orange UK number.

now, the account login page displays:
Please remember that you MUST register for a local number before you travel to any toggle mobile country.

https://account.togglemobile.co.uk/login.aspx?lang=en

12 countries including UK is on this case.

so it is officially confirmed than roaming is volontary broken in these countries.

Now if activation of local IMSIs really becomes mandatory for toggle countries what happens if I travel to more than 9 countries within a month? Afaik toggle SIM cards cannot hold more than 9 IMSIs which would leave me without service in the tenth country. Not a very likely scenario anyway.

I wonder what happens if you enter a toggle country without a local IMSI. Couldn't toggle just automatically assign a local IMSI over the air once it discovers a customer roaming in a toggle country using his Roaming IMSI?
If they can't automatize it local IMSIs should at least be available for subscription by USSD or the STK menu, so customers do not need to access the Internet before entering a toggle country but can obtain a local IMSI free of charge from their handset.

only truck drivers can be on this case... the most dangerous is you must made changes X hours before your border passage because you can be with no network on the middle of the country... dunno in fact if IMSI changes on the fly can be done on this case. i think not because your are initially unknown/blocked with the IMSI you used before your quick trip.

Of course when you enter a toggle country without a local IMSI the STK application would need to switch back to the Roaming IMSI in order to automaticaly request and receive a local IMSI. The Roaming IMSI in turn would be restricted to USSD while all calls remain blocked (should be easy to implement with CAMEL). Actually an automatic STK-based IMSI selection process is already in use today.

9 Countries out of twelve
 

Looking at the flags on toggle it would seem to be a strange truck drive to visit Australia, Ireland and the UK on one trip. Of course, if you are in the UK, then one of the continental Europe countries needs to be dropped. Spain? Poland? I suspect this issue will arise when Toggle gets more countries!

When I signed up to Toggle earlier in the year, the helpline lady told me that they can enable/disable IMSIs from their console position on request. Takes a couple of hours...

This suggests our mythical airline pilot (?) or truck driver could travel to more than nine countries in a 30-day period and still get service.

I'd imagine he'd also be a candidate for Toggle's promotion of customer of the year!

+Steve :)

Thanks for the explanation [shortened], and it does show as described.

Is it possible that they might block forwarding while a SIM is roaming - by which I mean here not on the home territory for the actual number being called - but allow it at home?

I suppose I can try this a bit more in a few days time

New User Experiences
 

Hi guys. I have been struggling to understand Toggle for about a week now and am very glad to have found this forum!
There have been a few discoveries that I have made and I would love to get some feedback on them:
* Registration of my local Toggle number took about four days - but it worked Ok in the end.
* I was hoping to forward my normal number to my local Toggle number while overseas. That actually works OK in Australia but there is no voicemail facility, so is not of much use if (say) I want to turn off my Toggle phone overnight in UK. Toggle have now told me that voicemail only works when directly calling the primary (UK) Toggle number.
* I now plan to forward my normal number to my UK Toggle number (which I can do very cheaply OK). I am trusting that this will work OK and that voicemail will then operate OK.
* I can ring my UK Toggle number OK from Australia and leave voicemail OK. After calling in to the mailbox, I am told about the new message but cannot actually listen to it. I think that this is just a system fault and await Toggle's help.

There is some great potential here, but boy it is difficult to get a handle on it!

Welcome
 

Welcome to the Forum.
Perhaps in a few weeks you could gives us your observations about how it is working in Australia for you. Your contribution will be appreciated.

Some Toggle Mobile Thoughts
 

As this seems to be the most knowledgeable discussion going on Toggle Mobile, I thought I'd post these miscellaneous thoughts/questions here:

• Seems Toggle will really become most useful when they have data packages for countries other than the native country of the SIM (UK for £ SIM, NL for € SIM). Presumably would have to extend life of IMSI to coincide with data plan - e.g., if bought a 15 day data plan with 10 days left on IMSI.
  
• Not clear what happens when 30 days are up on IMSI life. I suppose people may get caught making calls that they think are at the 3p per minute rate, but actually end up paying the higher roaming rate. Also, for some country IMSIs there is a time lag between requesting IMSI and getting number
  
• Re IMSI time lag, got Spanish and NL numbers instantaneously, took longer for France. France is the only one of the three that requires passport information. The number showed on the website but it did not show as "registered" until some time later - and will not show as registered until actually downloads the number to phone,
  
• My guess is that Italy is not among the Toggle countries because of the Italian security regulations. In Italy, one has to have an Italian tax ID number to get a SIM card. I suspect the Italians may not allow Toggle to assign an Italian IMSI number absent the Tax ID. This could be a problem in other countries as well. Seems the general trend in the world is to require more ID and make it more difficult to obtain prepaid SIMs.
  
• They say US is coming, but they will need to change their business model somewhat. No one offers free incoming in the US when you dial a US number, as it is mobile customer pays in the US, not caller pays like in Europe. They presently have free incoming in the US when calling one of the European numbers, but presumably they are getting some money at the European termination end.
  
• What's the deal with the termination rates to the UK number? It is in the Lyca range, seems that until recently the other UK mobile operators charged extra to call Lyca, but that has now stopped. Betamax/Dellmont charges for Lyca calls as for regular UK mobile numbers, but Localphone charges 2.9 US cents to most UK normal mobiles but 19.9 cents to Lyca (same as Jersey.) In practice, this can mean that it is cheaper to get an IMSI in France for example (3.9 cents on Localphone) even if not travelling to France for purposes of forwarding.

T-Mobile UK excludes calls to Lycamobile UK numbers from inclusive minutes. I read somewhere that this was because Lycamobile used to be an MVNO on T-Mobile but Lycamobile switched to Vodafone, taking a huge number allocation with them. T-Mobile in retaliation applied this commercial sanction against Lycamobile. None of the other networks have ever discriminated against Lycamobile numbers in this way, even though Lycamobile's termination rate is higher than the main networks. Even after Orange UK and T-Mobile UK merged to become EE, only T-Mobile branded customers continue to suffer this sanction against Lycamobile.

One way around this is to port a number from a mainstream network to Lycamobile or Toggle. This causes many originating networks to charge as if the number had not been ported.

of course it is a kind of joke...

too technical for me ;) my case to do not have any network if ppl activate a toggle country from 1km of the border and move in less than 2 hours to the middle of the next country is possible ?

The Lyca movement from T-mobile to another network happened in the Netherlands, and about 4 years ago, so it's a matter of speculation as to whether that is the actual reason for action in the UK.

It does appear that Lyca's termination rate may be a bit higher, but maybe only a cent or so.

That's interesting about the Localphone rate. Switching displayed currency to GBP, it shows as 8.2 pence, which isn't equivalent. I've sent in a query about this, and it's been forwarded internally ... maybe it will be reviewed.

That explains why I had trouble finding the source then. Thanks!

One version

Lycamobile signs deal with Vodafone Netherlands

That's about the launch of course. Whether there were disputes arising later about migrating customers or their phone numbers, I don't know.

In the UK, originally Lyca was on Orange, perhaps with ordinary Orange prefixes though I'm not sure. When they launched what they initially called Lycamobile Plus as an mvno on O2 then they had their own number allocations.

Given that Lyca seems to have partnerships with different networks in different countries, without any apparent favourites, it would be surprising if T-mobile UK is carrying this over from the Netherlands.

Maybe it is only that it disagrees with Lyca UK having a higher termination rate [if indeed it does].

> It does appear that Lyca's termination rate may be a bit higher, but maybe only a cent or so.

In France, terminate rate has been decided by a regulator, no amount can be higher than their condition.

lyca spain is on this case..


he was with movistar
Lycamobile adds Spain to list of operating regions

and now with orange
Vodafone (network) - SIMCARDSPAIN.ES

of course with no customers alerts ^^

Are you certain that Tmobile still excludes Lyca from it's commercial rates? I saw a thread elsewhere stating that Lyca calls were now treated by Tmobile (and other UK mobile providers) the same as other mobile networks, and someone pointed to Tmobile's website where the Lyca exception on longer appeared.