Yes, but If roaming in a Greek mobile network (or a Uk mobile) I can dial satelite networks dirty cheap!
Cheaper than all other options. That is what I meant.

My question is :
1. what is maxroam sms number ? Maybe the same Estonian +372 (EE) number ? I didn't find any information about it on website. Is it the same number , or we will get two numbers - one for calls and one for sms ?
2. Billing ? Is it 60/60 , or 30/6 like Geodesa ?

ViJu, you're right that there isn't enough info on the website about sms. But I don't think it is an Estonian SIM.

Previous Roam4Free sim card had Estonian number , now I cannot find any information about it .
Another question - is it possible to buy other number for a short period 1-2 months ?

After Stu reported my post of 28-09-2007, 00:30 http://www.prepaidgsm.net/forum/show...7694#post17694 I'm feeling a little 'guilty' about my opinions ;-).

First of all, it wasn't my intention to offend the Americans or anyone else.

As to the reasons given by Bossman.

1) People don't know how to dial an international number.
AFAIK the international dialing code in the US is 011. So, if you give to someone a number like 011 44..., 011 423..., 011 375... et. what is the difficulty with dialing such number???
2) People are confused when they have to dial so many digits.
That's in fact a problem. If saying "I'm abroad - it's a foreign number" doesn't help, i don't know what to do :dunno:

The most important issue, IMHO, is the rates. Of course, international rates to mobile phones in CPP countries can't be very low. However, I haven't realised that US operators may rip off so much on international calling :thumbdown:. $3.49 per min from Verizon to Jersey mobile - an example sent by Stu - was a little shock to me. Now I understand that leaving people with international numbers may result in two alternatives: either they will check the rates and they won't call at all or they will pay horrible bills...:evil:

From my point of view another issue is confusing about SIMs like MaxRoam - the SMS number is different from the voice number. Doesn't it matter?

Important condition for Maxroam sim cards
 

Does the MAXroam service expire if I don’t use it?

Yes it does. What we do is charge you a minimal monthly amount EUR 1 if you do not use your MAXroam service during a particular month.

This might sound unfair but it is common industry practice for pre-paid type services. Specifically the reason for doing this is because of accounting. When we have prepaid credits for our customers on our books they show up as a liability. If these credits are never consumed, or never expired, we would have a very difficult accounting problem.

Cubic Telecom is a different kind of communications provider. We want to explain why we do everything we do. We will never rip you off or mislead you.

If you would like to know anymore about this please feel free to contact us and we will provide all the gory details from our accountants.

akraus88 that not all look at this:

"In order for the MAXroam service to be a low cost service we may rely on advertising and marketing supplied through the service and other mechanisms to subsidize the service. We intend that any such marketing services shall be discrete and of targeted interest to you. By agreeing to these terms and conditions You agree to receive such advertising and marketing. If You do not want to receive such services You should notify us in writing. MAXroam reserves the right to charge You a higher fee for the service should You choose not to take these marketing services. This higher fee, if applicable, will be posted on the MAXroam website."

"We take our customers' privacy seriously. Please read our Privacy Policy for full details at www.maxroam.com/privacy. Whilst we respect the privacy of our customers, cellular calls may be subject to interception by law enforcement agencies and bodies."

The above speaks for itself, marketing and privacy don't go hand in hand.

Another one:

"You may request a refund for unused credit by sending an email to support@maxroam.com. Refunds will only be available for credit purchased directly by You and not through any special offers, prepaid cards, vouchers or similar mechanisms. Refunds shall not be made for balances under EUR 5.00. MAXroam charges a EUR 20.00 fee to process any refund requests. Any breach of these refund terms shall lead to termination of this agreement."

So when I want 7 euro credit back it will cost me 20 euro meaning I have to pay them an extra 13 euro.

Sorry but when they want to be taken serieously don't write terms like this on credit back. Anyone who can think and calculate knows that this is crazy.

"We reserve the right to make changes to these terms and conditions. You should check the MAXroam website regularly to see if any changed have been made or announced. We will endeavour to provide 30 days advance notice of significant changes, either by posting such notice on our website, or by contacting You directly. If You do not notify us within 30 days of a change then You will have been deemed to accept this change to this Agreement."

Also what if I don't agree with the new terms and want the remaining money back, still charge me 20 euro for doing this ? When so this is not how it should be done.

As for the marketing, I thought this was an open company but no somewhere they hide the fact they are reselling your data for marketing purposes.

some more:

We may have translated the original English Language version of this Agreement into other languages. If there is any inconsistency or discrepancy between the English Language version and any other language version of this Agreement, the English language version shall prevail."

So far for good certified translations.

Reading the small print makes me wonder even more. They shout a lot = marketing but when you read between the lines it's nothing new.

I hadn't realised about the marketing. What shape will that come to you in? Texts?

This sounds like that other 'slightly more famous' Irish business: Ryanair

In response to bob's post, I'd note:

A controlling language in the event of discrepancies is common. You see this in international treaties and even International Court of Justice Opinions. Even where the opinion does not state a controlling language, the original language (French or English) of the authoring justice controls if there is a discrepancy between the two versions.

I'm no defending anyone, just giving "El Diablo" his due.

The refund issue isn't a big one to me. Personally I don't expect that any of my prepaid airtime on mobile phone SIMs is ever going to be refundable. T-Mobile US certainly won't give me my $110 back at any cost, so the fact that a refund is available here, even at a penalty, is a plus to me, not a minus.

The marketing stuff is a little bit of a different issue. They should be rather open about that and clearer about what it entails. What am I saving by taking marketing, and how much marketing will I get? I might endure a little annoyance for significant savings, but if the savings are tiny I might not want the bother.

It appears that Maxroam has just raised its rates by about one-third.

Welcome


Before I looked again, I was expecting to come back and reply that no, they had the baseline tariffs right before, but not the higher rates for more expensive destinations

But you're absolutely correct, like 25 up to 34 cents, etc


edit - rates from the USA are still the same

Thank you.

Maxroam has of course reserved the right to alter rates, but to raise them so substantially three days after launch is a bit like "bait and switch." I would not have purchased this card had these rates been in effect at the time I bought. Not a great way to build customer loyalty.

Regarding rates from the USA, does anyone really use these global cards in the USA? I would think the cost would be prohibitive.

Well... I'll admit this is very very confusing (and dare I say unprofessional) but they haven't actually changed the rates at all. That would be too bad at this stage! The rates shown are actually the US$ rates but shown with a € symbol next to them for added confusion. There is a little note above the box:

That comment has only appeared in the past hour and a half.

Just shows how pro these chaps really are!

They probably put the comment in after reading your comments on one of the blogs. In any case, dead confusing even with the comment as the rates still have a € next to them!

There's no doubt that Maxroam rushed to get this product out, and the website has had one problem after another. This is at least the third rate sheet they have posted. However, this does appear to be an honest mistake -- the rates shown are indeed the same as they were, only expressed in dollars. I should have seen that when I noted that the rates were about one-third higher than they had been.

Comparing Maxroam to UM (which also rushed to get the UM+ rate out before it was ready), it looks like the Europe rates are pretty comparable. Maxroam might be a penny or two higher, but there is no setup charge. Maxroam has a substantial price advantage when roaming in some parts of the world (e.g., China, Russia, Central America), but a disadvantage when roaming in others (e.g., the Middle East). Maxroam's rates to mobile phones are the same as its rates to landlines, which is nice. Maxroam does charge for incoming calls, but it provides local telephone numbers for some countries. I realize that I could set up my own DID, but I prefer not to do that.

I was pretty upset when I thought they had changed their rates after only three days. With that issue resolved, I think Maxroam is a pretty decent value.

mobile and landlines same rate. In countries like USA this is normal but most ofther contries do have different rates. It does not make sense to offer same rates as it does mean that you are paying to much for calls to landlines as calls to mobiles are at least 9 eurocents per minute more expensive (on average in europe)

The DID number is nice but I still don't know how the phone can be reached directly. Are they using a +44 number, iceland or what ?

I don't mind such mistakes. If the service (call quality, features, support) is good, then I consider this an 'oops'-moment.

Setting up your own system with PBXes, and my own DIDs and Routes is nice, but in the end, these are all extra hops which have an impact on call-quality, and there are too much possible points of failure. With an integrated system like MAXroam, I think that the chance of running into problems is much smaller.

I think it is (for the moment) a way to make it easy for them. I think there was not time enough to create a more complex pricing structure.

When I read this http://www.goebel.net/technews/labels/Maxroam.html
I'm convinced they have a lot of work to do, and that they just wanted to establish a place in this difficult market in time.

AFAIK a phonenumber (allocated in the GSM-numbering space, whatever country - it doens't matter) for a SIM-card, is more or less the same like an internet domainname for a website. They both are "aliases" for numbers. The phonenumber for the Simcard#, the domainname for the IP-address.

So whay they do is simply pointing different DID's directly to the SIM-card, and not a phonenumber.

This doesn't answer these questions:

• To what number can I sent an SMS ?
• What's the CLIP when I make a call from a card that has more than one number assigned to it?

But I'm sure these things will be answered in the FAQ the coming days.

BTW: just minutes ago (12.10 PM) they corrected the rate-table again. Now with a different pricing for Mobiles and fixed lines.

I think it will be more popular in America, where people are used to the idea that calling mobiles is the same cost as landlines. Other places, where people have contract mobiles with inclusive minutes, it doesn't matter as much that they call a mobile.

The advantage of Maxroam and its similar predecessors is having the possibility to add landlines in the places you visit, if you'll expect loads of incoming calls from there. Frequent or long stay visitors or groups will get a local SIM though, so that will be the dilemma, how much use is expected.

But without getting too complicated and subscribing to loads of DIDs, pbxes etc, there are possibilities like Sipbroker/Voxalot, which means people can set up one VoIP call forward to themselves, then others can reach them via local landlines in 25 countries, eg in France 01(Paris)p*010xxxxxx like a simple callthrough (similar in effect to CBW pin2dest), and costing me a few cents a minute.

That's why I think that Maxroam isn't yet what it suggests, a disruptive approach that has broken through to achieving local calls at local rate; it's still roaming at roaming rates.

This week a product has launched in the UK with inclusive minutes packages for international calls. If that becomes popular and spreads, then perhaps ringing visitors roaming in one's own country or friends on a foreign SIM on their holidays won't be a big deal. And the minutes are free! Don't throw away the Liechtenstein SIM.

Congrats on winning the iPhone ygeffens!

So it was a good idea to launch it there. I bet 2 out 3 cards were sold to the USA. Correct me if I'm wrong Sean. But that's not wrong, is it? We (I speak for myself, and maybe for the majority of the people here) live in Europe, and travel most of the time within Europe. So, we look at these products from a EU-view.
That way your call travels (at least) 2 times over the internet. With Murphy looking around the corner all the time, I prefer a more reliable sollution. I agree when this is all for pleasure/private use. The world will not fall apart when you can't be reached by the people that stayed at home when you're on a holliday.


_yet_, indeed, you might be right there, but I always was told to learn to walk, then to run. So, what MAXroam is doing is not that stupid.
I understand that you are maybe disappointed because they are not already delivering what you hoped they would be. I also was hoping for eg. Data, but we'll have to wait another 6 months for that (see the link I posted to Markus Göbel's blog, a few messages up).

THAT is a problem for MAXroam and similar services. There big operators just have to think of something and it's almost a working product, simply because they have a platform that is capable of doing almost anything, they just have to be motivated by someone (eg. MAXroam), and they launche that new product. So, maybe al the 'small' operators are paving the way for the big ones?
I indeed will not throw away my UM-card, but probable that country will not be included in many bundles, they probably start with all EU-countries, and Liechtenstein isn't one of them.

new rates, higher rates that make it even less attractive.

I agree setting out your own system is more complicated and more errors are possible. On the other side the price difference between the do it yourself solution and the rates maxroam is offering now are to big !!!

As for the quality. When they as ygeffens said have direct sim without number. Still they will have incoming did numbers through the internet connect to their system, that they would have to connect to the sim on whichever network.
In case of say a USA did number the call goes through the interent fro the USA to their server, than their server connect to the server of the sim providers that routes the call to the network on which the sim is logged in.
I don't really see a difference here with the pbxes solution.
USA DID connects to pbxes sever, pbxes calls the number and gets connected.

As said before nice service but the rates are just to high !!

Thanks :-)

1. I will NOT upgrade my phone :-)
2. I WILL let you know what cards that are accepted by this phone.

MAXroam
Call USA DID -> internet (from USA LEX to MAXroam-servers) -> SIM

PBXes
Call USA DID -> internet (from USA LEX to pbxes.org) -> use VSP (over internet) to forward to UK Cellphone number (eg UM+) = SIM

MAXroam's call travels over the internet once, the other example twice. Right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

PBXes has a different setup. It has a failover system, but then it becomes very slow. When something goes wrong with the uplink that MAXroam is using their ISP will automatically switch to another route, without changing anything in the configuration of the servers. That way the chance that a DID becomes unavailable is rather small, and the speed of the server is not affected (unlike what happens with PBXes because all users are transferred from one server to another).

Anyway. Every system has it's pro's and it's con's.
Professionally, I'll use MAXroam, for other things I might use PBXes (or it's equivalents).
I'm saying this without knowing MAXroams call quality, so actually I'm talking about the setup, not the specific service (MAXroam in this example).

Sounds nice direct to maxroam servers and than to sim.

If this is the case than maxroam must have the status of a network provider like manx telecom, jersey telecom or any other cellphone operator. The situation we see now with the manx card for example is that manx telecom is the network provider and callkey handles everything.

If what you are saying is right than maxroam must be a true provider having their own network directly connected to the gsm phone network.

I don't think that this is the case as you just don't become a cellphone provider like that.

Knowing this the signal still has to travel from their servers to the server of the provider. In this case maxroam must be something like callkey.

I agree that their route should be a bit shorter and safer.

But again I keep telling this over and over again, their rates are just to high. Why would a lesser service like the pbx route be cheaper than a directer route maxroam says having. With cheaper it's a lot cheaper not just a few eurocents.

Right, at the moment, they may not have the best rates, but I think that changing the rates will be something they will handle first, then they will eventually introduce new features. I'm very curious what their data-offer will be. Calling without a callback-system sounds nice. With some cards I'm having a problem receiving the callback, something that can be avoided when elimination the callback.

Let's wait and see. I think some people are to negative for a company that just has started. Agreed, it would be more 'pro' to come up with a finished product, but then again UM created UM+. UM was there for a long time, and they too had difficulties starting up (but they had their rates correct from day one :-) ).

I can forgive a simple mistake on the rate sheet, but this is getting ridiculous. The rates get more confusing (and higher) with each iteration.

I originally was attracted to this card because it appeared somewhat better than the next best card for my particular needs. I have an upcoming trip to France, so I wanted reasonable rates for calls to and from the phone within France and between France and the USA. I also wanted reasonable rates for the handful of other countries I'm likely to travel to over the next year so that I can actually use the minutes I purchase.

The UM+ card offered 29 eurocents to most destinations, more to mobile phones, plus a 25 eurocent connection fee. Incoming is free, but my callers would pay quite a bit, and my own voip carrier charges about 22 eurocents. Rates from countries other than Europe are only fair, with many countries in Central and South America unavailable altogether.

The Maxroam card appeared to offer 30 eurocents to ALL destinations, including mobile phones, with no connection fee. Incoming is not free, but I could get an incoming number with my own area code, and either give out that number or forward from my landline. Rates from countries I'm likely to visit over the next year are generally better than those from UM.

Then came this morning's rate sheet. Assuming it's gone back to Euros (they've dropped the reference to USD$), rates from France to the USA have gone from 30 to 38 eurocents; rates are now higher to other destinations and to mobile phones. Rates from the UK and other European countries are higher still. Plus it's impossible to determine the rate WITHIN a country. Enter the same country in the "roaming in" and "calling to" fields, and you get incomprehensible results: calls to "local" landline and cellular phones are priced differently from "outgoing" calls to landline and cellular phones in the same country.

I'm not trying to pick nits here. But I'm also not that interested in what this service will be like six months or a year from now. I'm buying a SIM card, not making a long term investment in the company. And right now, there is no way to tell how this card will work for me compared to the competition.

Grampa,

You are right and this is the problem with most roaming free card. Everything works fine for some month's and than something happend.

UM lichtensteinnumber was very good untill all carriers increased the rates calling to lichtenstein mobile to very unattractive rates.
UM+ is nice and now a few month's later voicemail seems to come online.
IOM cards were ok but the system is offline now.
Maxroam is a lot of marketing and does not seem very seriously by changing their rates several times in almost 1 week. Also the don't give to much background information on their system so how long will it work ?

My only conclusion is to setup your own system and yes it is more complicated but whenever 1 providers fials you just switch to another one.
You have your own did number and forward id the the provider you want. The cost for doing this forward are only 10 cents. So in every romaing free country calls are forwarded for just 10 cents, which is a lot lower than what other companies are offering. This was all discussed in this thread and some feel that it is to complicated and lesser quality and maxroam is better. Sure maxroam for now is just marketing and it looks like dialy rates chaninging and these rates are 2-4 times higher compared to a do it yourself system.

I was the subject of an article for doing precisely this in 2003 (apx) Wall Street Journal. I guess the Times is behind the curve.

bbob,

I read your earlier post about pbxes, but this is all somewhat new to me, and perhaps I did not understand it. I understood that the free version of pbxes will save money only on incoming calls. How does that help when outgoing rates change? It seems to me that when you pay 30 Euros for a card, and the company subsequently raises its rates, your choice is to pay those higher rates or stop using the card, which is the same thing since the cost of the card is then spread over fewer minutes. How will it help to switch to a different provider?

To me, the whole concept of "prepaid GSM" is beginning to look like a scam. What have you bought if the company can raise the price of minutes you have already purchased?

Prepaid SIM operators require no loyalty of us as customers. In exchange, they have no obligation of loyalty to us.

Prepaid operators that do not act fairly and consistently will not attract as many customers. Those that are fair and reasonable will attract more customers.

As with any product, vote with your dollars (or euros or pounds) and choose products in context with all the competitive options.

I hear the word "scam" bandied about as if every business in operation intends to defraud its customers. While a handful clearly do, most are honest. Changes in rates are due to economic necessity or market forces.

To avoid rate increases, use your minutes up. If you don't use many, use a provider that forces you to buy fewer prepaid minutes so that your risk is less. (Expect to pay more per minute, however.)

Fair enough, "scam" is too harsh. I can't speak about the intentions of these companies. However, I've been reading the comments in this forum, and there is very here little to inspire confidence in them. Many providers appear to be thinly capitalized, running on a shoestring, and operating from jurisdictions such as Isle of Man, Liechtenstein, Estonia, Jersey, Iceland or Monaco. Do they make their profit by taking advantage of some temporary regulatory anomaly available in those places? I don't claim to understand their business models, but their ability to operate seems extraordinarily subject to changes outside their control, witness the IoM providers or UM's +423 plan.

In this context, we are asked to "prepay" for a service the price of which can change without notice. I can't avoid rate increases by using my minutes up if the rate increases take place before the card even arrives in the mail. It's like paying in advance for ten pounds of potatoes, but then getting only seven because the price went up between the time of payment and the time of delivery. I'm not asking for loyalty; I'd just like to get what I paid for.

Why assume there could be regulatory anomalies in these places?

No, the territories are small and finite, which means their companies might be more disposed to listen to certain ideas to expand their markets, but which might not earn much attention in large companies with networks in many countries. Thus some of these have coverage on ferries aircraft and global SIMs, while Vodafone sells or buys a network in Sweden or India

I'm asking, not assuming. This area is new to me. Are you saying that the only reason prepaid providers operate out of small jurisdictions is that there are no small telecommunications carriers in Europe or the UK willing to do business with them?

MAXroam SIM received
 

This evening I received my MAXroam SIM.
Activation was not necessary. I could log in with username and password that I received 2 days after buying the sim online.

3G, Internet and MMS settings were all pointing to *.orange.co.il

I send an SMS to the UK number that I was assigned, the message did not arrive (as expected, it's a landline number).

I entered my simcard number here:
http://www.numberingplans.com/?page=analysis&sub=simnr

and got back this:
Network name Partner Communications Co. Ltd
Operator name
Country or global network Israel
MCC-MNC 425-01

Cheap ass as I am, I didn't try to make a testcall.
I did send an SMS to my Belgian Mobile (cost €0.30)
It arrived immediatly, and was from an IL number (+972 543 56 xxxx).
I then tried to send a message back to this number (cost €0.02 - thank you justvoip :-)). The messages did not arrive.

That's it for now.
Now I'm waiting for my iPhone to arrive :-)

So basically there is no way of receiving SMS? I was wondering why Pat just wouldn't answer any questions about SMS... though I asked the question on a fair few blogs! They appear to have not sorted that out yet!

This sounds like the same company "Orange il" that yackie first used. And, sms sent to the +972 number worked. So, may be they just have not ironed it out yet.

That's not what I'm saying.
I think that the number I saw was the number of the SMSC, and not my 'real' cell-number.

So I assume it possible, but not in this stage.

Pat told me that they are really doing overtime, that's why he haven't got the time to reply on the blogs/forums.